Best sounding Fender push pull 6V6 amp?

[Cliff Schecht]

I'm no expert when it comes to Fender amps but I am aware of the different models they've made. Which Fender PP 6V6 amp is the "best" sounding amp (this is subjective of course)? I'm looking at building either a Vibrolux or a Deluxe really, although I'm leaning towards the Deluxe for simplicity reasons. Is the 5E3 supposed to be the best sounding version? Are these amps loud enough to gig with (small bars and such)? I'm doing mostly blues rock with but also need a good country twang.

I've got a lot of octals and would like to use these. How do the octal versions sound compared to the 5E3?

[Darkbluemurder]

A 5E3 would be good for blues rock but not for country twang - too much midrange and not enough clean headroom. Check out the brown Deluxes (I believe these are the 6Gxx ones) for a compromise between Tweed grit and Blackface twang.

Cheers Stephan

[andrew_k]

6G2 or 6G3. "Forgotten heroes" of the Fender lineage

[tubeswell]

For tweeds - it'd have to be the 5G9 - tweed front end, LTP inverter, fixed bias, and bias-vary trem that'll slam you into the middle of next week.

For Browns, the 6G3 - that ZZ Top sound on Blue Jeans Blues

For BF, the deluxe reverb

[Cliff Schecht]

How about octal versions of these amps? I've got a good stash of 6SC7's, 6SJ7's, 6SK7's and 6SL7's that I'd like to put to use.. But I see all of those schematics have 250k plate resistors which would have more distortion. I have a modified Blues Driver that sounds frickin fantastic in front of any Fender tube amp so I'd like to have something that I could set for a good clean sound and hit that BD2 for overdrive/distortion sounds.

[Cliff Schecht]

So if I was to go the Deluxe Reverb route, is the AA763 or AB763 a better choice?

[Andy Le Blanc]

Its all the same really, just the flavors are different, 6sl7 sound good.
Id go Fender 5c , 5d, 5e, all gig out nice on a pair of 6l6 or better.
The paraphrase inverters break up nice with 12ax7, more top with 6sl7.

[galtjunk]

The best sounding Fender I have ever heard is a 5e4-a Tweed Super.
2 6v6's into 2 10's. I have 2 tweed Deluxe's and they are no slouches, but they don't compare to the Super. I don't know what it is about that amp that makes it sound so good, maybe all of the correct magic parts got picked out on that day and they all went into this amp. 55 years later, it still kicks butt.

[Structo]

This won't help because it uses noval tubes but the Super Reverb has to be the best sounding blackface I have ever played.

[danotron]

Fender!? NO!

Build a 6V6 D'lite or 6V6 Express.....now thats sweeeeeeet.....thoughs ARE the best sounding amps

[Phil_S]

How about octal versions of these amps? I've got a good stash of 6SC7's, 6SJ7's, 6SK7's and 6SL7's that I'd like to put to use.. But I see all of those schematics have 250k plate resistors...

You've got to apply what's known about preamp tube biasing along with a little bit of guessing and bravado to make these tubes work well. I believe you can achieve a very good substitution for the noval tubes.

For the 6SJ7, look at the Gibson GA20 schematic.

For those dual triodes, study up on the pages in the back of the RCA Manual. See attached. If I understand this correctly, the mu of a tube is just a guide and in practice it hardly every provides that level of gain. You trade off noise and gain in biasing the preamp tubes. IOW, if you have a sense of what the actual gain of a 12AX7 is supposed to be in a given circuit, you can sub a 6SL7 with the right bias and get very close to the same result.

I suspect the large plates in the octal tubes serve to benefit tonal quality. This is just a gut feeling. I have no basis for the statement except my own experience. Keeping preamp voltage as high as possible increases headroom. To do that, reduce the value of the dropping resistors in the B+ supply ladder.

You don't need to be confined by the designs of the past. They make great jumping off points for your own experiments. Go ahead. Take some chances. Make something a little different. In the end, if you don't like what you build, get some sheet metal, close the octal holes and re-drill for novals. Then, use the 12AX7's the original design called for.

Little to lose, much to gain!

[Cliff Schecht]

Phil, that's sort of the conclusion I came to this morning. I'm just about to finish my bachelors and if I can't design a damned 3 or 4 stage guitar amp then I probably wasted my money on school . I'm sure my Express build, for now, will do just fine although it's obviously going to be a pretty damn loud amp, even attenuated.

[Phil_S]

Cliff,
IMO, it sounds like you don't need or want a 30-50W amp.

If you want to have some fun, build a Princeton with a 6SL7 for V1. You might tinker with using a 6SL7 in the tremolo circuit, but the lower plate resistance may negatively affect its ability to trigger oscillation (what makes it work). If you use the 6SL7's, fool with the tube bias by trying (any or all):
a) lower value cathode resistors -- as low as 820 ohms.
b) lowering the value of the last resistor in the B+ supply to give you a little more plate voltage.
c) adding one more filter node on the B+ ladder (8u or 10u is plenty) so you can divide the plate supply differently to control plate voltage -- you can use a small value dropping resistor, possibly as low as ~250 ohms and you'll surely be OK at somewhere under 1K.

The nice thing about this amp is that it's got a little of everything. Nice bias vary tremolo circuit, concertina PI, 2 separate inputs at the front end. Fixed bias.

You can tweak the front end of each channel for different sorts of treatement and you can use what ever tone stack/tone control your heart desires. It's all pretty much mix and match and hard to get a bad result as long as you don't go too far off the beaten path.

Be creative.
Phil

[ampgeek]

FWIW, my very first amp build was a Bassman 5F6A in which I substituted 5691's (industrial/military 6SL7) for 12AX7's in all 3 positions.

The only changes that I made to the 5F6A circuit was splitting the V1 cathodes (2X standard Rk on each) and jumping the input to both V1a and V1b so that I could dial in varying amounts of normal and bright with the volume controls.

I packaged it up in a 2 X 12" solid curley maple combo (ala Bluesbreaker) with a Weber alnico Bluedog and a Silverbell.

It is one VERY fine sounding amp if I do say so myself. Full, rich and round. It doesn't break up at any reasonable volume (lower gain with 5691's) but...it takes OD pedals (which I build from GGG and others kits) REALLY well. Super clean, high headroom Bassman tone to better than screaming JCM 800 on demand!

Cheers,
Dave O.

[Cliff Schecht]

Perhaps it's time to visit the local vintage amp guy. He's got a big collection of vintage Fenders and the like so maybe he'll have a Silverface I can convert on the cheap. I'm about to move out of my house so it's probably not smart for me to start another amp build right now..