Mesa Lonestar Special schematic needed

[Tonegeek]

Anyone got one? This is the one with the 4 El-84 power section. I have the Lonestar one but need the Lonestar "Special" one. No luck doing web search.

[vibratoking]

Any hits on this? I wonder if Mesa would send me one since I own one? Let me know. I could call and try.

[pdrie]

For the power section, you could try looking at the associated patent, US patent 7602927. It at least provides the general description of the output stage configuration.

Paul

[C Moore]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7602927.pdf
Did he patent the wheel.?

[Tonegeek]

For the power section, you could try looking at the associated patent, US patent 7602927. It at least provides the general description of the output stage configuration.

Paul

Hadn't thought of that but this is the lonestar and I need the lonestar special which is a different beast. It has a tube and SS recto circuit

[Tonegeek]

Any hits on this? I wonder if Mesa would send me one since I own one? Let me know. I could call and try.

Thanks for the offer but I think I will just pull the chassis and get my hands dirty. The 15/5 watt settings don't work and that is where the 5y3 kicks in. the 30 watt setting works fine. I suspect the 5y3 may be bad or some associated circuit. It may have an internal fuse, just have to see when I get in there. Wish I had a spare 5y3 as a substitution would be the first thing I try.

[pdrie]

He seems to have patented everything short of breathing For anyone else who is looking at the Lonestar Special for the 4-EL84 output stage and selectable rectifiers, there are three patents involved that may help with the Mesa implementation:
Patent 7,602,927 for the power stage and patents 5,168,438 and 7,193,458 for the rectifier.

Paul

[VacuumVoodoo]

You guys are aware that US patent law has recently been changed?
It's first to file, not first to invent anymore. More in tune with international patent laws. At the same time US adopted requirement for a "significant level of innovation" so hopefully no more patents for trivial, obvious, insignificant, ridiculous and public domain circuits lifted out of old text books and magazines.

['67_Plexi]

Any hits on this? I wonder if Mesa would send me one since I own one? Let me know. I could call and try.

No problem getting schems from Mesa if you are a legitimate repair business, not so sure about an end user requesting, you can only try. In fact a couple of years ago I was repairing the power amp section of a Mesa bass amp and one of their techs at Mesa spent a good while going through the matching and set up procedure for the solid state output devices with me.

As for the patents, I'm with Alex. Some are a joke.

[Tonegeek]

He seems to have patented everything short of breathing For anyone else who is looking at the Lonestar Special for the 4-EL84 output stage and selectable rectifiers, there are three patents involved that may help with the Mesa implementation:
Patent 7,602,927 for the power stage and patents 5,168,438 and 7,193,458 for the rectifier.

Paul

This helps a lot. I suspect the 5y3 is bad in this amp or it could be the switching circuit. since the SS side works I am leaning to the 5Y3 being the culprit. If I had a spare tube I could test this without taking the chassis out. I think I will just buy one and even if it is not the tube I will have one around for future repairs.

[M Fowler]

Here is the lonestar

[renshen1957]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7602927.pdf
Did he patent the wheel.?

Hi,

LOL, I wouldn't be surprized if he tried.

Randall Smith patented quite a few circuits which had fallen into public domain from the RCA manual, so I wouldn't be surprised if he hadn't attempted to patent the wheel. Then again the USPTO isn't populated with electrical engineers, just lawyers, and the judges are loose cannons on this and any other subject.

His Push-Pull to SE patent uses a switch instead of a pot to switch between the two; the concept of PP to SE was incorporated and sold in guitar amps in Canada a decade previously, and published in more than one book prior to Mesa's patent application.

Mr. Smith cloned the Soldano's SLO pre-amp exactly component value for component value when he released Dual Rectifier (later versions slightly tweaked these values). Shows his level of respect for IP.

His schematic for the Tri-mode programmable preamplifier contains the following Warning:

"NOTICE: INFRINGERS BEWARE!

This design and circuit is protected under U. S. Patent 4,211,893 and others world-wide. It has been successfully prosecuted against infringers who have paid very large fines and/or been forced out of business!"


Back to the thread.

Best Regards,

Steve

PS The concept of a dual rectifier isn't exactly original either, saw concept in a book copyrighted 1997 and still widely distributed. Rectifier tube sag (occurs when the amp is dimed and the power supply can't keep up) wouldn't be audible in a 100Watt amp unless heard from a some distance.

[Tonegeek]

The 5Y3 was bad. As much as it is PITA to work on these amps, I will say the 2 I fixed this week sounded really good. One customer said he was going to sell his Mesa because it breaks down a lot and he is tired of the big repair bills. I guess that goes with the territory on a really complex design that is very labor intesive to repair. And then combine that with the crappy tubes you get these days and you will have more repairs.

[ampdoc1]

Randall is an asshole deluxe!!! He's threatened more people for using "his" technology than I can count, but has he ever taken on companies the size of Fender, Gibson or Peavey? Fuck no! He's a bully that will only stand up to the little guys. Can't knock their early products,...first amps built for overdrive, and good guitarists could get a great sound with them.

But they have always been a pain in the ass to work on, and even the schematics issued to approved service personnel were always incomplete. I don't even wanna talk about their PCBs.

Mostly good products,.....a douche for a CEO!

a'doc1

[vibratoking]

You guys are aware that US patent law has recently been changed?
It's first to file, not first to invent anymore.

Yes, alot of changes were recently approved, but some of those don't go into effect until March 16, 2013. This includes the first to file. The post grant review process went into effect Sept 16, 2012. This introduces a challenge system into the process. A patent can be challenged up to 9 months after it is granted and potentially be disallowed. This is potentially where Mesa may have problems with future patents. The current patents are not challengable. Of course, all this involves lawyers and money. Which makes the whole process a big piece of legal/political shit. Believe me, I know.

The LSS is a good sounding amp IMO. It can be difficult to tweak, but there are alot of good sounds available. It doesn't have alot of headroom so it can be a bit on the mushy and/or dark side. It is often difficult to get the highs right, at least for me. The choice of rectifier playes a big part here. There are few guys in my area that use them and they sound like dogshit, but that is an operator problem. On the plus side, it is an easy amp to play and is very forgiving with regard to less than stellar technique. You very rarely feel like you have to fight with it.

I have had mine for 4 or 5 years and never had any failures, but the 5Y3 failure is pretty well known. The load on the rectifier is to heavy on some models and causes the 5Y3 to fail during switching between the SS and tube mode. Google it and you will find some good into and solutions on which resistors to swap out so that new 5Y3s can be used. Or you can find a good NOS 5Y3 and I think you will be OK. Mine just doesn't seem to have the problem and I have never opened it up to verify the values.

I would still like to have a schematic.

EDITED: Fixed for spelling and grammar