Instrument Repair

[HobbswheresCalvin]

ACOUSTIC BRIDGE SETUP

the nech straightness is usually perfectly straight to a slight bit of relief, no more then the thickness of a .009 gauge string above the 7th fret

the only difference is the bridge height.

because the top travels more when strings are played.. the action must be slightly higher.
AFTER THE NUT HEIGHT AND TRUSS ROD IS SET

i set up Most Martins, (which their fretboards are pleked Perfectly flat) Taylors will also do this from my experience, and some custom Acoustics. The Shenk I am working on now will do the same after i finish the fretlevel.
are set with action heights of
Bass String: string sitting on top of 2.5/32nds
Treble String: string directly in the middle of 2.25/32nds or between 4/64ths and 5/64ths.

this is low though and the neck is perfectly straight. this works for finger style players. but not strummers. so more often then not the action will end up like this
Bass String: String Sitting on top of 3/32nds
Treble String: sitting directly in the center of 2.5/32nds or 5/64ths.
This is the most used height. lower can be attained but picking must be very light.




General Info
Cedar tops are usually typically made for finger style players and Nylons.
Spruce tops Are Made For Strummers.
Simply Because the Cedar has a top out distortion much lower then the Spruce
Typically
That Doesnt Mean Either Can Be Used, but if your looking for a certain sound it narrows down options for you

[katopan]

Fantastic info, especially about setting the nut slot height. I like low action and have always set the relief and action lower than vendor or other website specs. But the trick of using the first fret clearence for nut filing would work really well. Thank you!

[HobbswheresCalvin]

absolutely, The Website and vendor spec is just so that so any guitar set at that height will work.. the store i work for gets new fender guitars in all the time and the setup is always horrible.. i call them for a setup reimbursement through warrenty and they always say its set within spec. but their spec is extremely sloppy.

there are also specific ways to bring down a floyd nut.. which are ALWAYS high. which for shredders really matters.

i use two things in combination. the first thing i do is i check the height. i then remove the nut. since most licensed floyd nuts are "pot steel" they typically are not flat on the bottom... how are you expecting good sustain fro an uneven connection.
Do not do this if you have shakey hands or do not feel comfortable around a fast moving belt with high grit.
i have a very good connection with my fingertips.. which has been strengthened and tamed over the last 10 years of both metal working on these things, as well as wood and bone work.

I have a small Craftsman 4x36inch belt sander
i am also left handed so i will explain it from my point of view. it is good to see how well you can hold the nut against the sander with the machine off.
i have it set in the horizontal position.
so
facing the machine. with the left hand, grasp the nut from the sides. bass side against the thumb. treble against the index finger. slowly lower the nut onto the moving belt slowly. i say slowly.. i mean very softly because the friction that you will experience can pull the metal nut out of your hand, suck it into the dust cavity and destroy it before you have a chance to turn it off.. sooo again i repeat slowly and softly.
now from there its up to you based off your analysis of the heights to know how low to take the bass and treble side down. now this doesnt take into account the radius of the nut vs the frets. but it should get you close. the problem with floyd nuts is they are not individually compensatable.. filling into the slots will only ruin the nut as it will not smooth out from string friction as a bone nut will. but the belt sanding will give it a much stronger connection with the wood as you will see how flat it originally WAS.

this is after quite a few passes on the disk sander, which i use first because it is technically flatter then the belt sander. tho much harder to hold onto, as it heats up and moves quicker
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =3&theater

this is after being finished up on the belt sander.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... permPage=1
Much flatter and way better fit.

because your working with a floyd. taking off the nut and putting it back on to check your progress is easy and necessary.. as you are taking off material you cannot put back on. simply attach the vibrato bar and slink the strings, the nut should slight right out.

[HobbswheresCalvin]

There are alot more photos in that album of my work, if you end up searching the rest of my page. you will find i am quite the party animal.. sorry bout that but people seem to like to take pictures of me in my "prime" dont take this as a bearing on my work. i have been doing this for 10 years and have way more professionalism in the shop. i have to, or i would be missing fingers HAHA

[Structo]

Using the your right hand pushing on the string above the 2nd fret, sometimes 3rd when you get really close to perfectly seated. You can leave no room showing above the first fretwire. This isnt necessarily easy.

I like your method because it keeps you from going to far. But i am not sure it takes into acount the pop that the string has as it it pulled to a knife edge (edge of nut) with tension and down the length of the guitar. There is a pop here otherwise the string would kink everytime you put it on the guitar.
Bridge height for electrics usually can be adjusted withiut cutting anything. As long as the radius of each saddle is correct.

On my guitars (tune o matic) i use feel to govern bridge height. After i set the radius


So please question everything

I'm not clear on what you mean by pop in the above instruction?

Yes When I adjust the nut I pretty much already had the bridge set and relief.

I like my action just a bit high on the treble side to aid me in bending strings.
If they are too low I have a hard time pushing them over.

[HobbswheresCalvin]

think of a string as a spring rather then a thread. when you apply pressure to either side of a spring it bows in an arc fashion. when you do this to a thread it will kink where pressure is applied. the string does much of the same it will have a slight slope as the string wants to continue in the direction that the nut has set as its trajectory. when it finally falls from the tension on it, the amount of bow that is created has to be taken into consideration when cutting the right height. otherwise if you work with it like it is a thread. the action may be too low or to high

action for bending can be raised from the bridge side. or making neck adjustments that will give relief in the middle of the neck, this will add a slight bit more room in the middle of the neck for say A minor Penatonic and blues.

[HobbswheresCalvin]

think of a string as a spring rather then a thread. when you apply pressure to either side of a spring it bows in an arc fashion. when you do this to a thread it will kink where pressure is applied. the string does much of the same it will have a slight slope as the string wants to continue in the direction that the nut has set as its trajectory. when it finally falls from the tension on it, the amount of bow that is created has to be taken into consideration when cutting the right height. otherwise if you work with it like it is a thread. the action may be too low or to high

action for bending can be raised from the bridge side. or making neck adjustments that will give relief in the middle of the neck, this will add a slight bit more room in the middle of the neck for say A minor Penatonic and blues.

[smokin' tone]

Great info. Thanks for posting.

[HobbswheresCalvin]

Now to tackle fret leveling. Th
Tools for this
3 black sizes
1.5"x9"
1.5"x4.5"
1.5x12"
These sizes are rough estimates. And are completely flat. I use glas because they are flat and do not change...as long as you dont drop it
Straight edge that is the length of the entire fretboard. And do longer because typically they hit the bridge and cannot give a solid reading, typically of a material that does not flex. Stew mac has a great straight edge.
A fret crowning file. I use the rounded edged ones stew mac supplies.

The sand papers i use are:
320
400
600
1000
0000 steel wool
The 320 is sticky back so you can use it on the blocks.

I could write a book on proper leveling but what it really comes down to is proper analysis of height using the straight edge. Using the straight edge straight the neck with no string on it. Get it roughly straight because more often then not there is a different between looking at gaps on the treble, middle and bass sides of the neck, but with trial and error youll find a happy medium between them all.

Now i cant be responsible if you try this, but i would recommend doing it on a cheap guitar first. Where you can make improvements almost no matter what.

There are a few typical things you will come across.
The first is described as someone who has had a heavy hand on the neck. Most right handers who do fretmills will push more with their thumb. This is typical of having the higher fret being low from around the 15th on on the bass side and low on the treble side near the nut
The second is having a hump somewhere on the neck between the 5th and the 12th frets. This is cause usually from there being a fret or that were notpounded in all the way.
Single frets being high or low. This can be fixed by pounding in or raising the fret and regluing them in with super glue. Pound in only with a mallet, no metal hammers. I use a piece of a hack saw blade i cut up and sharpened to lift the frets. Usually you can simply pound it under with the mallet and.left to the correct height. Checking the height against the surrounding frets using a 6inch scale ruler or your long straight edge..then glue under them when you find the correct height and razorblade the excess glue off.

After this analysis. Spot milling is the next step. Using the crowning file to re round the frets after each pass to then be checked using the straight edge. This is tedious as with the 320 grit, which i reuse hundreds of times becomes very slick and takes very little off with each pass. This is key for getting a perfect level.
Use the different sized blocks as needed . Always work from the first fret down. As you typically want this to be the highest fret. Technically

This is a very vague description as the nuances are hard to describe. Theres tricks ive found that really are something i could only explain as they come up and through a video.

But after the spots have been milled out. This is a late point to.mention this, but you check each string path. So you dont just run directly down the neck from one end to the other. You must pay attention to not only the radius but the path of each string. Do not press hard with thr blocks they take off alot. And less is more when it comes to keeping fret height for longer life.

So again after all frets have been milled flat. Recrown them, very lightly. This is another key point, you want to leave the faintest hint of the flat block milling. So that this is the tip of the fret height. They all must be even so this line must be consistent. Practice makes perfect..or close. A trick is to crown them as best you can
Then quickly go thru the sanding papers using them to run full length the fretboard rounding them over. Go from 400 thru 1000.
Then take your longest block. Tape on perfectly a sheet of 1000grit. Do not double stick this. Wrap it around to the top making the creases as perf as possible.
Use this block going the WIDTH of the fretboard in a fanning motion, section by section(4-5 frets at a time). If youve done a good job. There should be a faint line on each fret thats consistent. Fix any inconsistancys and repeat.
After this, there are two ways to go about this. With a painted maple fretboard you should always have the fretbord taped off so you dont scratch the finish. Rosewood is very forgiving and ebony is usually easy to buff out.
Tape off the first fret with at least 1" blue tape. Going with the fretwire the width of the neck, move from 400 to 1000 grit and finish with 0000 steel wool. Taking out all scratches. Each fret should come out mirror finish. Do this to each.
The other, production way of doing this is to take a piece of each grit. Taping off only a maple fretboard ajg move lengthwise on the fretboard with each until all scratches are gone. Using isoprople alcohol on a cloth and wiping down the fretboard to remove metal dust from wood grain and compressed air drying to remove everything else. Then taking a designated metal buffing wheel and buffing lengthwise on the fretboard to smooth out further. This is still correct because the tiny cross grained scratches that are left are taken out of the frets as soon as any vibrato or bend is applied. Essentially smoothing out the frets again.

If this is done well, typically someone could charge between 125 and 150. For this and a setup.
Although unless you have learned from an experienced master, please dont charge people, egos removed, unless you know your coming out with a very precise product and yor setup is veru tight. A good fretlevel means nothing without a good setup on it. Its like a perfect road with pinto. No offense to anyone who owns a pinto.

Sorry for my spelling errors. And again any questions welcome. This is a complex process as simple as it sounds there are many factors i learned about while doing this hundreds of times in a row. Crowning frets is one thing as well that takes along time to get the feel for. Go very light as if anything you dont change the frets too much.

Good luck
Hobbs

[HobbswheresCalvin]

O and to just throw this up here , i charge 85 for this proceedure plus the setup if your in the area. So if you dont feel confident to do this yourself but you can tell you need it. Contact me

[rdjones]

Thanks for all of the tips Hobbs. Very useful. I prefer 7 strings with very flat necks (16-20" radii), huge frets (6000, 6100s) and quite low action. I'm trying to learn how to do things for myself so your commentary is helpful.

Some of the "how low can you go ?" theory goes out the window when you have a traditional tight 7" radius Strat or Tele neck.
If you try to set the action like your flat radius Jackson or Les Paul and go to bend even a half step you'll be fretting out.
Finding a compromise with a bit higher action on a guitar that's played harder or gets a lot of stretching can take some trial and error.

reddog

[rdjones]

Then I can file down to the gauges without going too deep and the need for a new nut!

It allows me to determine how much I want the bottom of the slots to be above the first fret.

I'm glad you talked about how much nut to have above the strings because that always seems to be a point of contention among techs.

If a nut is cut a bit too deep sometimes you can salvage it by filling in with a drop of superglue.

I find one of the trickiest things when filing is the angle of the slope to the tuning posts.
Getting that right is what determines how good your open strings will ring out and sustain.

Getting that angle right sometimes ends with a scratched up peghead.
I mask off the area behind the nut with a small piece of sheetmetal or thin plastic (like pickguard or backplate material).

rd

[HobbswheresCalvin]

Hmm, this was an issue i definitely had for a while. When i went to MI they taught me a fool proof setup that worked on just about everything but on the tradition 7.25" radius the action seemed extremely high. When i figured out how to accurately measure the nut slots, there was improvement. One typical problem with fenders is that their 25.5 scale neck makes strings travel further. Meaning they will buzz easier. The other problem i find with fenders is that their fretlevels are by far some of the worst. Even on american series. Dont get me wrong, they sound amazing. And gibson is just as bad. They just cant seem to figure it out.

Fenders typically have a rollercoaster level from around the 9th fret on, it almost seems like they try for a compound radius. And failed. Gibsons have a hump of fret height where the neck meets the body. They overcopensate for the neck set and dont fix it.

Heres some theory. When you bend a string, say the high e string at the 14th fret. You actually raise its height in essence, if the frets above it are at the same radius as the fret your bending. The slope will of frets in front of the bent note will not get in the way.

A fretmill on these are key, i did a 78 strat with frets that were barely even there, my boss asked me to salvage them with one more fret level. The spot milling took me a week of figuring out all the high shopa, taking them down bit by bit until they were all the same with no string wear in them. But when i finished. I had action most shredders would die for. I handed it to our sales man and he couldnt believe it. Hed never played a strat that did that, he said it was almost too low to grab string to bend. But they still sang out. Im tooting my own horn here i know.

But what im trying to say is, it really comes down to the fretlevel. Action as low as i gave will not work on a neck with horrible fretleveling. (Ive fret leveled brand new strats for customers who want lower action , and the rollercoasters i find are unbelievable, stuff on a usa fender that would be a defect to ESP) you can check this.

Straighten the neck as much as you can and place a straight edge next to any of the strings on a fender. And see how many are actually touching.

I am not trying to talk down against fender or other manufacturers. Only stating my experience.

[rdjones]

I am not trying to talk down against fender or other manufacturers. Only stating my experience.

Been There, Done That ...
I come from a primarily Fender background (amps and guitars) but when Jackson, Charvel and Kramer came out with the flat necks that were all the rage at the time I could sell guitars to guys that could hardly even play a well setup Strat.

reddog

[HobbswheresCalvin]

I most definitely agree on all your points rdjones.

Tho theres a set of "safety" files that stew mac sells. They have rounded ends to keep your from doing this. Also, practice makes perfect. Tape where necessary, and more is better in the case where you havent done this before.
Ill definitely be the first to admit i dont mentions things like this because i am giving instructions from my perspective. I very seldom tape anymore. I find now its a waste of time. But thats because ive done these things bazillions of times

When showing students ill tape ot off. I just didnt think to mention while writting it. This is the first time ive written down my procedure for any of this stuff. And boy is there alot more where all that came from.

O and rdjones, it definitely takes a real man to man handle a 7.25" radius. Theres a reason most shredders dont use them. But boy do they sound nice in the right hands