uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

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martin manning
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by martin manning »

So many questions... I don't know too much about the uT6, so I'll answer based on my experience with the uT3. After nine years, it's good to take a look back.
dorrisant wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:13 pm will the uTracers be able to replace my Hickok's? I am not so much worried about the gas test or life test, I can see how those are available with some extra thought and setup. But, will it test for shorts? Or do I need to run the tubes through another tester first?
The uT3 hardware is short protected, so you can just throw a tube at it and run a QuickTest (QT). If the QT looks odd, a trace will often reveal more, and perhaps what is wrong (sometimes it's an oscillation). There are options for adding short and leakage tests. The most valuable of those IMO would be h-k leakage, which is a common failure. That could be done fairly easily, and it's on my list. You can of course look for shorts with a multimeter, and the life test on vintage testers is just a reading at reduced heater voltage, which is easy to replicate. See below for more uT vs. Hickok.
dorrisant wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:13 pm is there a repository of tube files? Like quick test files that I could be dropped into a specified folder for a faster start once the device is functional.
You can save and recall the setup files that you create by clicking buttons on the main form, and they contain both the curve tracing and the QT parameters. They are easy to create, and I recommend that people make their own to become familiar with setting the tracer up. It doesn't take very long to accumulate files for all the common tubes. For the QT on any given tube, I look up the data sheet and pick off the parameters for the 250V spec point (which almost every data sheet has, in table format), and load them into the QT form. It has fields for entering the spec values, and calculations showing how far the DUT is from the spec are made when the test is run.
dorrisant wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:13 pm Would you, knowing what you know now, go for the uTracer 6 instead of version 3+? How often do you wish you had that extra plate voltage? How often do you see the extra current being beneficial? I know that you are limited by the maximum current, therefore limiting the plate voltage at times. I have seen tubes make it through two Hickok's only to arc like fireworks when used in the amp (MusicMan). I would think that being able to run big tubes at higher plate voltage would allow one to match the actual working conditions of the amp intended.
The typical Hickok and others, AFAIK, do not test at anything near actual operating voltages. The QT at 250V is about twice the Hickok service-type tester voltage IIRC, and you get more information. There are some Hickoks that can test at higher voltages. For example, the model 580 could test at up to 300V.

The uT3 goes to 400V, and in the high-current configuration it can go up to 1A. On Ronald's site, he recommends setting it up for 600mA if you want or need more current capability. That's how mine is configured now, and that's sufficient to make full traces of large power tubes at their typical screen voltages. The upper limit for Va and Vg2 is still 400V, but most data sheet curves do not go above that on the g2 voltage, and there really isn't much to see at higher anode voltages once the curves flatten out. IMO there is no compelling argument to keep a vintage tester around, other than as a collector's item.

I did think hard about building a uT6. Assembling the board would be quick and fun, but in the end I decided that the time and cost required to make a new enclosure and socket array would not be worth it for me. Also, I'm not sure how the two stack up if you consider the uT3's accuracy at low current vs. the value of additional current capability. I'm still thinking about an easy way to make the uT3 switch from high current to normal mode, which would be ideal. Like the uT3, the uT6 basic board can't do positive grid voltage, or a grid current measurement. There is a daughter board for the uT3 that allows Vg from -10 to +5V, and measuring of grid current for triodes. An accessory for the uT6 is currently under development.

I'm using an external heater supply with my uT3, and while the uT6 heater supply is an improvement, I understand that uT6 owners still prefer to use an external supply over the on-board supply. The good news is that there are some compact and inexpensive SMPS available for that. My setup uses the two small bench supplies I have, one for the main power and one for the heater. It is very nice to have heater current limited at start-up, and measure the tube heater current, and monitor the current drawn by the uTracer itself to be sure it is functioning as it should. That was particularly nice as I was going through all of the upgrades from the original uT3.

A comparison table is here: https://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag12.html Note that it's missing a reference to the low/positive Vg accessory for the uT3.
dorrisant wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:13 pm I have gotten accustomed to the use of rotary switches for tube pin connections. I think I might want to use that with my own build. I could follow the convention of my 605A making use of the tube charts that already exist. I'd probably install banana jacks for each pin assignment just for the added flexibility. That would be the one thing I would add to what you've done so far. Add a rotary switch for g1... Right in the center of where you mounted the pin jacks, so that you could point the g1 "knob" at the pin jack you want it to feed. No jumper, no possibility of shorting it to anything.
I'm really happy with the banana jack and patch cord system. Common tubes share pin-outs, so I can set those up quickly from memory. Some people have wired up a dedicated 12A_7 socket, which would be a nice time saver since that setup is very common, and among the most complex since both triodes are tested simultaneously. If you isolate the uTracer circuit ground from the enclosure, the danger of shorting the grid terminal to the case is eliminated. I just haven't gotten around to doing that yet.
dorrisant wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:13 pm I'm surprised that they don't just send you a V6... We all know that your posts here have certainly sold several devices for them already. Why not capitalize on that? ;)
I think I drove Ronald nuts will my questions, suggestions, and complaints about the uT3's shortcomings (as documented here in this thread). It did benefit from all that though, and it's a much better tool than it was when it was first released due to the many software and hardware improvements. For example, originally there was no QT, as Ronald didn't see any value in it. I lobbied hard for that, and even provided a drawing to lay out the form.
Last edited by martin manning on Sun Apr 07, 2024 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
turbofeedus
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by turbofeedus »

martin manning wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:11 pm For example, originally there was no QT, as Ronald didn't see any value in it. I lobbied hard for that, and even provided a drawing to lay out the form.
Wow, that's crazy. I use that most feature most frequently by a long shot.
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martin manning
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by martin manning »

I looked back in the web log pages, and there was no QT in a screen shot of GUI 3.5. IIRC there may have been a simple quick test feature by the time I bought the kit, but it was not that great, and definitely low priority. It had some issues too, as documented earlier in this thread.
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dorrisant
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by dorrisant »

Thanks for all of those answers. Most definitely leaning towards the 3+.

What are the dimensions of the main PCB? Plotting and planning a layout atm...
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martin manning
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by martin manning »

R Dekker has said that the uT3 is fine for the great majority of users. uT6 was created for people demanding higher voltage and current to test/trace what I would consider special purpose tubes. From the comparison chart on his web site:

"Application range

The uTracer3 is in my opinion the ideal tester / tracer for 90% of all tubes. It is well debugged, relatively forgiving with respect to oscillations, and it will practically cover all common radio, television and amplifier tubes. Despite the fact that some tubes are specked to, or used at voltages higher than 400 V, most important tube parameters can be determined at voltages well below 400 V.

Especially because of the higher susceptibility to oscillations the uTracer6 really is the tester for the more experienced user who really needs the extended voltage and/or current ranges, or the future possibility of positive grid voltages (in combination with the possibility to measure grid currents). Especially ham radio enthusiasts will appreciate the extended capabilities of the uTracer6."

I'll add that uT3 with the Low/positive Vg accessory can run up to +5V Vg1.

Back on page 7 of this thread there is a .pdf showing my panel layout (without the two latest switches I've added for the built-in calibration resistors and Low/Positive Vg at the far left). https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 76#p328976 The uTracer PCB outline is shown there, and it measures 4.00” x 6.38”, with mounting centers 3.63” x 6.00”. I used a Hammond 1590DE enclosure, 4.73” x 7.88”, which has become very crowded. R Dekker's web pages are a great resource for layout examples, as he asks users to send them in.
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sonicmojo
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by sonicmojo »

Darn it, with the price of tubes I am tempted to build my UT3+ kit that I bought in 2016 and do some real testing of the archives. Yikes, time flies! Glad to hear it is not obsolete!
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martin manning
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by martin manning »

2016? Build it up! No need to make a fancy enclosure and socket array to gut it up and working, and no, not obsolete at all. Very useful piece of gear.
neskor
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by neskor »

For sure, build!
Here my freshly made enclosure in black pelican case ;)
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martin manning
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by martin manning »

Very nice! Others take note of the heater supply module, which is available for under $20 and makes a great current-limited heater supply for uTracers.
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by dorrisant »

Martin, are you talking about the external heater supply interface/controller with display that is at the bottom right of neskor's build?

Also... neskor, very nice looking build. I would like to see an inside shot... Only to see how you mounted the top plate to the Pelican enclosure.
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martin manning
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by martin manning »

dorrisant wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:51 pmMartin, are you talking about the external heater supply interface/controller with display that is at the bottom right of neskor's build?
Yes, correct. It reduces the ~19.5VDC from the suggested laptop power brick to heater voltage. You can set a current limit for slow start, and read steady-state current.
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by dorrisant »

Thanks for that. I guess I am a bit confused on the placement. I was assuming it was only used to control an external filament supply. No worries though, I'm sure it would become crystal clear when I start the kit.

I like the USB data port in neskor's build. I have used those before, but could never find the mating plug. It looks as though it would lock in place, but I think the manufacturer never even made one.
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martin manning
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by martin manning »

The heater supply module completely replaces the on-board supply, and operates independently. This is the same as I am doing with a bench supply. I have a switch on the panel that selects the external or the on-board supply, and it looks like neskor does the same.

R Dekker seems to be stuck on RS232 serial communication, like the old-fashioned 9-pin D-SUB connector serial port. To interface via USB (modern computers) you need a converter. In my uTracer I have removed the RS232 interface IC from the board and take the TTL interface from the processor out via a 3mm TRS jack. A FTDI cable (FTDI TTL-234X-5V-AJ) converts the TTL to USB. uT6 uses the same MAX232 interface IC, so if Neskor's data port is USB then there must be a converter inside the box. Others have added a Bluetooth module for wireless communication, but I'm perfectly happy with the cable.
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by neskor »

I used Pelican 1400 mounting plate to mount utracer top plate to the pelican case, check attached image.
Also on the external heater supply there is small BT board, so you can use Andorid or PC to adjust heater parameters.
For USB I used FTL USB to serial adapter.
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martin manning
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Re: uTracer (Micro Curve Tracer)

Post by martin manning »

Here I've captured an example of a technique for tracing rectifiers with directly heated filaments, like 5Y3 and 5U4. The reason for doing this is that using a DC supply results in each diode seeing a different average Va-k, which requires making two runs with opposite heater polarity, and averaging the readings post-test (first plot). The AC supply technique (second plot) is very simple, and only requires a power transformer with a center-tapped heater winding and a Variac. It will work quite well with averaging set to automatic, but I manually set it at 16 to smooth any offset resulting from the uTracer grabbing readings when the filament voltage is not passing through zero. This illustrates the reason a CT was included on rectifier windings before indirectly heated cathodes (5AR4/GZ34, e.g.) became common. No such averaging is necessary for rectifiers with indirectly heated cathodes, and they can be traced using an isolated DC heater supply.

NB: The heater supply must be isolated (can not share a common ground with the uTracer) if there is any common heater-cathode connection. This includes all tubes with directly heated cathodes (5Y3, 5U4), and rectifiers with indirectly heated cathodes and a common h-k connection (5AR4/GZ34).
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