Capacitor cocktail - types, locations

[Gainzilla]

Hi all,

I realize I may be inadvertently touching a nerve here, but I'm hoping to gain a little insight. I can definitely hear a difference between different caps (or at least different types). This makes me wonder if anyone is mixing cap types to create an overall goal, as opposed to just using Mallory 150's or Orange Drops throughout.

For example: let's say I have a Marshall inspired amp, and I want a top end with some sparkle but no ice pick, firm low end, and nice midrange crunch. Would I use something like WIMA or Orange Drop power amp coupling caps, Sozo or Mojo Dijon preamp coupling caps, Mallory 150 for PI input caps? What about cathode bypass caps?

In other words, what do you use, and where/why?

I appreciate any insight!

Cheers (and apologies in advance) 😎

[rp]

I've read it recommend to mix caps to neutralize the sonic peculiarities. Never did it as it might make the amp look like a junk box parts build, not that I should really care. For one who sells amps such a mix could imply super attentive mojo alchemy even if there isn't any - could be a clever sales trick I guess.

I've never been able to hear a cap's subtle flavor - bright, harsh, clear, dark changing one at a time, I might have heard it doing a stage, though after a few minutes of playing who knows anymore, but I definitely heard it shotgunning.

[roberto]

Hi Gainzilla,

in the modmodmod thread on sloclone I've written a long post about it years ago. You can report it here if you want, and maybe I discover that my opinions changed over time.

Anyway, in my buildings I use Wima MKP, old PVCs and Vishay Ero 1813.
In the pF range, ceramics and no silver mica.

[shoggoth]

A question for people who have opinions on one kind of cap versus another - are you guys measuring the capacitance (and/or ESR) of the original capacitor and the new capacitor when changing them out ?

I ask because that +-10% tolerance in value that both caps are probably going to have seems like a big and measurable factor.

[Structo]

I don't think I can tell the difference between types of film caps but possibly if the amp has all of one type cap.

I think it has more to do with the design of the amp, gain stages and biasing.

But of course I am 58 and my ears aren't as good as they once were.

[M Fowler]

I think there is a difference in cap choice and location within the circuit but I admit I rarely think that way when building.

I do try to use something besides ceramic disk and silver mica PF caps when I can, just to experiment a little.

Mark

[Structo]

Here is an article about Caps.

[R.G.]

I like a capacitor combination that gives a noticeable floral bouquet, with side notes of oak and cinnamon and a finish of parsnips and grapefruit.

[VacuumVoodoo]

No liquorice, R.G.?

[vibratoking]

I like a capacitor combination that gives a noticeable floral bouquet, with side notes of oak and cinnamon and a finish of parsnips and grapefruit.

I only seem to be able to detect cork?

[donzoid]

Yes we have stepped yet again into the capacitor type vs. actual values debate, at least that's what I call it. It's been hotly contested on other forums and the "cork" sniffers on the HiFi forums claim to have the golden ears. That's because they have a lot more money.

I for one spent a lot of time reading those debates, well thought out and logical arguments on both sides; and speaking strictly for myself:

1. I can certainly hear a difference in each type of cap used, and where (wow did I spend a lot of time inserting/swapping caps to try this...not sure how much and don't think I want to add it up). Yes, I measure 'em all first. I've even placed couplers with different printed values in as pairs, because they measured so close together for "x value".
2. from the OP original example, I say that's pretty spot-on as to how I approach my selection. And it DOES end up looking like a mish-mash of junk box parts in some builds. Do I care? Well, no but they are gonna be harder to sell.
3. I think most (all?) of us on this forum are players. Most are better builders than me, (this for me is a new game). What I marvel at, is how can a builder/player truly listening "not" hear the differences. No, it's not my psychological predispositions (as some would imply). And I agree that combo's of ceramics/silver micas, and polystyrenes give us a wide range of choice to remove an icepick, smooth midrange, or add a little more bite.

[Gainzilla]

I knew when I wrote the original post that there would be at least one reference to cork sniffing, and probably snake oil (haven't seen that one yet, but the day is still young).

First, thanks all for your help so far. I'll definitely read through the modsmodsmods thread, and the Walter Jung article... looks like some good stuff.

In all seriousness, though, this is not about some elitist crap where I have to have some fancy cap in order to be part of the cool kids club. I am one of those cursed with a set of ears that hear things others don't, regardless of a little tinitus. I wish I didn't hear a difference and that I could just be happy plugging into a Marshall and be done with it. It's a blessing and a curse.

What I would like to do is compile some basic assumptions/guidlines around how different caps impact sound (or at least different dielectric material), and ideally some basic recipes. I don't think its too much of a stretch. We can all at least agree that there are differences between ceramic and silver mica? We can all agree (hopefully) that in a Marshall style build, ODs have a fast feel but are kind of sterile. I feel like I've also seen a consistent that Mallory 150s are more "modern" sounding cap with nice overdrive characteristics. T/F?

I agree, when swapping out a single cap, it is likely way more difficult to perceive the difference, but much more noticeable when changing an entire preamp or power section. That's kind of my point. I recently bought some Mojo Dijons just to try them out. The amp I'm doing battle with is the JCA20HV. I had previously put Mallory 150s throughout. The tone was tight on the bottom and harsh on the top end. I was able to minimize that by changing out phase inverter resistor values to something more pleasing to the el84s, but it was still there. With the Dijons, the overall tone was just better. Much nicer top end, warm chewy mids, vocal lead tones with great sustain, but the bottom end was a little on the mushy side. Maybe that's the changes I've made to the circuit, but I don't think I've done anything too crazy and the first two stage coupling caps are .0047 and .0022, respectively. All I know is that the difference at least between the Mallory and Mojos was startling. It was like a completely different amp.

So here it is... I liked the tight bottom (and who doesn't? hehe) of the Mallorys, but I liked everything else about the Dijon's. I'm trying to sort out if I do something like keeping the PI input/PA coupling caps Mallory (for example), but the Dijons everywhere else, would I get the best of both worlds? I could just try, but I feel like there is a bigger picture to be shown here. Thoughts?

Thanks again for your interest in this thread. Again, not a corksniffer, more of a tone-chaser. Cheers!

[Reeltarded]

I like a capacitor combination that gives a noticeable floral bouquet, with side notes of oak and cinnamon and a finish of parsnips and grapefruit.

I only seem to be able to detect cork?

My secret is tasting at the junctions and comparing that flavor against the previous B+ node.

[Gainzilla]

Thanks donzoid, great stuff!

Re: the junkbox. I'm a guitarist first and foremost, building amps as a hobby for myself. I'm not concerned with keeping up with the Joneses. I just want that tone I hear in my head. Ideally, it comes from something that looks like a masterpiece both inside and out. That said, if that sound comes from something that looks like a rats-nest, then so be it.

I can see how for commercial boutique builders, aesthetics are much more important. My gut tells me that builders like Howard Dumble or Ken Fischer didn't give a rats ass about that stuff, though. They were chasing tone. Hell, I saw KD May's recent JTM 50 build, and my jaw hit the floor. Upon closer inspection, though, he did seem to mix in different types of components. That tells me it might be possible to have both.

Cheers!

[Gainzilla]

My secret is tasting at the junctions and comparing that flavor against the previous B+ node.

Hey Reeltarded, Are you saying you treat each B+ stage differently, or was that sarcasm?