A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

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Littlewyan
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A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by Littlewyan »

I built myself a 6V6 Marshall 2204 and am quite happy with it, but obviously I do wonder how different it would sound with EL34s. I understand that a 6V6 is a completely different kettle of fish to an EL34 but has anyone ever come across a 6V6 that sounds similar?

I'm using JJ 6V6s in it at the moment and I do recall that when I tried these in my Trainwreck Express they sounded quite mid scooped compared to the EL34s. I also very vaguely recall EH 6V6s sounding slightly similar to EL34s but it was too long ago to remember for sure.
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by Stevem »

They can tone wise sound very exactly the same ,but play / feel wise they are different !

A 6V6 and many other tubes being a beam tetrode for lack of a better word rev's up fast when drivin with a signal, a 34 and a 84 are pentode type tubes and need less drive sign for a given output than a beam type tube.

In short a Pentode tube has a smoother dynamic range so to speak!
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Guy77
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by Guy77 »

I love the overdriven sound from an el34/ el84 tube . It seems to sound tighter and more focused than any 6L6/6v6 tube.

Guy
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Littlewyan
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by Littlewyan »

Hmm maybe that's why the 6V6s sound slightly harsher. It's not a bad sound at all, just different. I was going to try biasing it a bit hotter to see if I can make it saturate a bit better.
studiodunn
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by studiodunn »

I've always felt that JJ6v6s were much more EL34 like then a NOS 6v6, i.e. typical 6v6 tone. I think harsh and scooped are pretty accurate descriptors, but not always in a bad way. I actually prefer them in high gain 6v6 amps, but still use NOS in fender circuits.
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Littlewyan
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by Littlewyan »

Really? What about the Tung Sol 6V6 or TAD 6V6GT-STR?

I think it also depends on how you set the amp up. I'm running 8K Impedance with 390V on the plates.
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by tubeswell »

Stevem wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:18 pm ... A 6V6 and many other tubes being a beam tetrode for lack of a better word rev's up fast when drivin with a signal, a 34 and a 84 are pentode type tubes and need less drive sign for a given output than a beam type tube.

In short a Pentode tube has a smoother dynamic range so to speak!
studiodunn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:02 pmI've always felt that JJ6v6s were much more EL34 like then a NOS 6v6, i.e. typical 6v6 tone...
A JJ6V6S is not like other 6V6s. A JJ6V6S is a proper pentode.
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martin manning
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by martin manning »

JJ says beam power pentode: http://www.jj-electronic.com/en/6v6s
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by tubeswell »

tubeswell wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:05 pm
Stevem wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:18 pm ... A 6V6 and many other tubes being a beam tetrode for lack of a better word rev's up fast when drivin with a signal, a 34 and a 84 are pentode type tubes and need less drive sign for a given output than a beam type tube.

In short a Pentode tube has a smoother dynamic range so to speak!
studiodunn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:02 pmI've always felt that JJ6v6s were much more EL34 like then a NOS 6v6, i.e. typical 6v6 tone...
A JJ6V6S is not like other 6V6s. A JJ6V6S is a proper pentode.
Yes I take that back - on close inspection, it appears to have a 'suppressor plate' between the screen and the plate (LoL). Looking at the bottom of the lower mica spacer, Pin 8 is connected to this suppressor plate . There is a jumper from the suppressor to the cathode.
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tubeswell
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by tubeswell »

Just to compound the potential confusion:

GE's datasheet for the 6V6GT describes the tube as a 'beam pentode', and shows a schematic for a true pentode as well:

http://www.radiostation.ru/tubes/6V6GT-GE.pdf

As does their 6V6GTA datasheet (but the plate dissipation is given as 14W)

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/135/6/6V6GTA.pdf

New Sensor's datasheet for the 'Tung Sol' 6V6 describes a 'beam pentode' and shows a true pentode schematic:

https://www.newsensor.com/pdf/tungsol/6v6gt-tungsol.pdf

The original Tung Sol datasheet describes the tube as a 'beam power amplifier' and shows a beam tetrode schematic:

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/127/6/6V6.pdf

The RCA 6V6GT data sheet describes a "Beam Power Tube' and shows a beam pentode schematic:

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/6/6V6.pdf
Last edited by tubeswell on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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studiodunn
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by studiodunn »

studiodunn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:02 pm I've always felt that JJ6v6s were much more EL34 like then a NOS 6v6, i.e. typical 6v6 tone. I think harsh and scooped are pretty accurate descriptors, but not always in a bad way. I actually prefer them in high gain 6v6 amps, but still use NOS in fender circuits.

The devil is in the decimal..........I was only referring to JJ6v6's, not JJ6v6S.
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martin manning
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by martin manning »

Very few data sheets use a different diagram for beam types vs. true pentodes, at least not lately. Note RCA's 6V6GT (linked above) shows a pentode diagram with a suppressor grid. JJ only makes 6V6S; no 6V6 AFAIK.
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Littlewyan
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by Littlewyan »

One thing I just thought of is I haven't upped the screen grid resistors at all. So as the 6V6s draw less screen current there will be less screen sag. Perhaps increasing this will bring the amp a bit closer in line with EL34s?
10thTx
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by 10thTx »

I've used 2.2k/3w screen resistors on 6V6's on several amps and like the way they sound. I think there is a slightly more compressed tone.

With respect, 10thtx
Stevem
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Re: A 6V6 that sounds similar to an EL34?

Post by Stevem »

Why big 3 waters?
When I die, I want to go like my Grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming like the passengers in his car!😊

Cutting out a man's tongue does not mean he’s a liar, but it does show that you fear the truth he might speak about you!
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