Bench Issue

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dorrisant
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Bench Issue

Post by dorrisant »

I stumbled into an issue a week ago...

I fired up a newly rebuilt amp with no problem... Plates,screens and grids of the power tubes looked right. All voltages in the preamp were fine as well. I hooked up a cable between my Ditto Looper and the input of the amp, started the loop and tried to adjust for volume... With the amp cranked, I could barely hear the audio coming out of the speaker (the OT's natural resonance is louder, for reference). The speaker is a 2x 12" cab.. good for about 300 watts at 8Ω. This is strange to me and when I thought about it for a minute, I hadn't heard the big pops I usually get when probing the tubes for voltage... Something wasn't right. First suspect is the rebuild in front of me. So I grabbed the scope probe to try to trace the fault. As soon as I connected the ground of the probe to the chassis, I got full volume... Turn that down! :shock: The other thing I notice is that the scope is indicating a perfect representation of the signal as it should be, but only the ground of the probe is connected to the chassis. The actual probe is touching nothing. :?

To eliminate obvious things, I unplugged all and took the amp to one of the cabs that are used for regular jams. All connections made... Sounds just fine. Full volume, no extra noises. Amp works exactly as expected. Back to the bench, and back to the same issue. Oh well, it must be a fluke... I will try to sort this out soon, but for now on to the next amp. When all is connected and audio applied I get the same condition as before... To the known-good jam setup... No problems there. What gives?

I picked up a known-good guitar to eliminate the possibility of the looper being the issue. Guitar plugged in, no signal (actually it is just barely audible). I plug the ground of the scope probe in and all sounds normal.

I can't figure out how I don't have any reasonable volume without the probe ground connected. I checked continuity between the chassis of both amps to the receptacle that it is plugged into. That receptacle is tied to the same line supply (120 vac) as the scope, but there is a variac in line with the receptacle. Continuity was positive. The speaker cab is not connected to anything but the 1/4" jack on my bench, no sampling of the signal going anywhere. I have another jack that goes to a dummy load and I sample off of that for probing and re-amping at the volume needed. With the scope probe ground disconnected, I get close enough to zero volts, ac or dc, from the receptacle ground to the chassis. Same results when probing from the chassis to the scope's front panel ground terminal. Zero Ω between the scope and receptacle grounds. Probing the receptacle for voltage, I get 120 vac from hot to neutral as well as hot to ground. The above condition happens when the scope is powered off as well as when it is on. I have never had this problem at this bench in all of the years I have had it set up. I don't know of anything that has changed relative to the bench that would cause this.

What am I missing? Has anyone had similar issues? I'm stumped for now.
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pompeiisneaks
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Re: Bench Issue

Post by pompeiisneaks »

I've run into the same issue. I had something wrong with the circuit, and when I connected the probe, it created a connection through that device that 'bootstrapped' the circuit so it started working correctly.

I realized later I was missing a capacitor somewhere (yours may have a bad solder joint or a bad cap?).

I don't recall the exact issue, just the generic idea that once I realized I'd missed a cap from the schematic over to my layout, I had no idea how it worked in the first place.

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xtian
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Re: Bench Issue

Post by xtian »

Shot in the dark, dept.: Missing grid-to-ground reference resistors will do similar, weirdly intermittent things...
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dorrisant
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Re: Bench Issue

Post by dorrisant »

I agree with both of you... I've had that happen before.

This is different. I can take these amps to a different receptacle and they work just fine.
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Re: Bench Issue

Post by pompeiisneaks »

oh weird, is the scope on the same ground as the bench power? Maybe something isn't 'earthing' right? on the receptacle, and your ground creates that? Not sure that makes sense, though, in my head it sounds wrong, but just thinking out loud.

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jjman
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Re: Bench Issue

Post by jjman »

Sounds like a bad neutral on the power input to the amp. Either the outlet or inside the amp. Bad neutrals are unsafe. You could end up taking its place instead of the ground on the scope. Remember the ground on the scope is connected to the neutral at the house service panel.
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