Fetron

[TUBEDUDE]

I guess other amplifiers that have bias controls are just lucky, or they have a smarter customer base. Maybe the Mesa tone appeals to a particular demographic. Buzz Buzz.

[Reeltarded]

I guess other amplifier companies that use bias controls are just lucky, or they have a smarter customer base. Maybe the Mesa tone appeals to a particular demographic. Buzz Buzz.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I guess other amplifiers that have bias controls are just lucky, or they have a smarter customer base. Maybe the Mesa tone appeals to a particular demographic. Buzz Buzz.

Guitarists who want to sound distorted all the time plus have a double hatful of knobs to turn and sliders to slide. One of the local chaps stepped up from the MarkV to a JP1 head with tons of choices plus TWO graphic EQ's, but sticks only to one channel on this extremely complex and versatile amp. He plays with a very gnarly tone while using at most 5 of the available watts from this beast, never loud. "The only way I can get my sound!"

Many of the Mesas I've seen use the same general signal path for distorted and clean tones, passing through several cascaded triode stages, compromising any chance at retaining a truly clean tone. "Clean" is never really clean, disregarding LeoGnardo's axiom: "simplicity yields clarity." Seems to me they're not seeking customers who have much use for a teen-kleen sound among their tone choices. But you have to admit Mesa has made a good living appealing to the crunch and scream crowd.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Leo_Gnardo]

More on the modern updated Gibson managed Mesa here. Geeze I was thinkin' about becoming a Mesa dealer 30ish years ago when the buy-in was a whopping 20 grand. Glad I didn't go there. A store carrying Mesa popped up only a mile away. Let them have the headaches.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/ge ... ition.html

[Matthews Guitars]

I do think it's dumb of Gibson to make it more expensive to become a Mesa dealer. That's pretty stupid of them.

I just acquired a Marshall DSL100H, my second one, for a price too good to pass up. I've been playing with it for a while and frankly it's hard to get a good tone out of it. It tends to get super ice picky in the highs and EQ'ing that out is an absolute requirement. So it's just like the last DSL100H I had, which I sold fairly quickly when I realized that it just in no way shape or form manages to match the tones I get out of any of my Mesas. Whether it was a dual or triple Rectifier, or a Mark II, III, IV, or V, the DSL100H just doesn't measure up and trying to get it up to a competitive and decent tone is going to require a lot of tweaking and signal processing in the effects loop.

It's not like my older Marshalls, which offer their own form of tonal bliss. I can deal with a Superlead. But I've never yet found a really satisfying tone in any high gain modern era Marshall. It's always been easy to find great tones in a Mesa. That's just how my ears and my tastes run.

And ever Mesa I've ever had delivers a great clean tone...when in the clean channel. As it's supposed to. If you're complaining about how the crunch or lead channel doesn't clean up well, you've got entirely the wrong idea about how that Mesas is built and intended to be used. This isn't a Trainwreck Express or even an old tweed Fender. Only the clean channel is intended to BE clean.

[teemuk]

Many of the Mesas I've seen use the same general signal path for distorted and clean tones, passing through several cascaded triode stages, compromising any chance at retaining a truly clean tone.

Many of the Mesas I've seen are practically clones of popular "classic" amp designs, so it's no more a problem of Mesa than the amps they copy.

Mark series up to Mk III, is effectively no more different on cleans than a bog usual Fender blackface and its reverb channel (which likewise has several cascaded triode stages), Transatlantic is no different than a TB AC30, Electrodyne is no different than a 1987 or a Fender blackface reverb channel (depending on channel), etc. Amps very much famous for great cleans. Early Dual Recs indeed are more troublesome being clones of a SLO and 5150, latter in terms of gain staging of the clean signal path. I believe Mesa added a better clean channel to later Rectifier models.

Anyway, you want to mock Mesa on how they design their amps? Be my guest, but note that then there's a great chance of then mocking all those amp designs we consider the classics because Mesa effectively just copied them adding more (optionable) features on the side.

Besides, I can't hold a simple circuit design such as Champ as an examplatory circuit that virtuously retains the "clean tone". In fact, the amps that actually do fair the best in such regard are very complex hi-fi designs from likes of Mcintosh, Audio Research, etc. Simple circuit designs usually have very appalling distortion ratings, though that may make them nice effect processors for electric guitars, and then again it just doesn't make any sense to compare them to those circuits that deliberately introduce even more prominent distortion effects, like the Dual Rec.

[cbass]

Sorry I'll go back to the garage now

[beasleybodyshop]

I'll give Mesa a few credits - through hole, vias on both sides of the board. They ARE more complex than most amps. But complex a great amp does not make....

Fwiw I hear bitching about technician skills, and it all seems misplaced. Anyone with a shingle out there that has chops is just rare, and getting rarer. Even the guy who only wants to service older amps.

I deal with service centers as part of a big audio conglomerate every day, and I get it. Stuff isn't built to be repaired because that drives cost up. You need SMD rework, differential probes, an AP, PCB microscope, and don't forgot all the tools for flashing MCUs and FPGAs from JTAG headers. In the grand scheme, anyone just doing tube amps has it pretty easy. The buy in to be a profitable service center is way higher now.

THAT being said, it's real easy to pooh-pooh anyone who doesn't want to work on Mesa Boogies. Hell, Mesa Boogie doesn't want anyone to work on them either. Except them. If you want to be a good little boy or girl and buy the mesa tubes, feel free. If you know the risks, perceived or not, with adding a bias control then go for it.

Can't say Mesa has been innovative in the last several years though. It's all been some form of rehash. Randy is all out of ideas to fit 10lbs of sausage in a 5lb case and sold it off to Gibson. Good for him. Gibson can make dual recs to pair with their les Pauls to the aging Tapout hat/Affliction Tee wearing crowd so they can play Creed and Avenged Sevenfold in their man caves!