New F&T 100uf 350v caps: Tip Of The Week

[WhopperPlate]

I used some of those brown Nichicon PS series caps in my 100W 102 and liked them.

I have a set of the Jupiter "wet" electrolytics for my 2nd Gen 50W build I just started. Has anyone used those? I just wanted to try something new.

-Dan

Warm , singing , I like them for fender

Thank you! That should suit this amp nicely.

-Dan

Let me know what you think when they are installed ; cross examine our testimonies

[dbharris]

Warm , singing , I like them for fender

Thank you! That should suit this amp nicely.

-Dan

Let me know what you think when they are installed ; cross examine our testimonies

Will do!

[Roe]

In an ac100, I tested the following F&Ts at the mains:

- 100uf 550v axial (special series for Frag Jan zuerst): fast, explosive response, good harmonics
- 2x 220uf 350v A series axial in series: slower, laxer. less aggressive and bold

All caps were slow-formed (voltage dropped to 2v across 100k resistor)

After going back and forth, there is a very clear difference. It affects response perhaps more than sound

[TUBEDUDE]

I like measurements. They help me quantify what I experience. I wish I had that spectrum analyzer R.G. had, that function of my Rigol scope is limited.
I agree anything real can be measured. Maybe not with the gear and process available to all of us, but it can help identify and filter out the variables in our hearing due to fatigue etc. True too is the fact that certain components, or combinations thereof, exhibit qualities that we recognize after using them in 40 or 50 builds without any measurements. Those differences are noted repeatedly over so much time and differing conditions that they are experientially valid.
Most builders use favored components for specific responses, noisy resistors or less than optmal caps. The limiting aspect of its construction or performance gives it a certain desired quality.. I understand the use of these to emulate the response of an iconic circuit,
Personally, I try to use foil caps for whatever I can, and metalized foil in lieu of electrolytics. Just my preference. Of course this is not possible in a clone or a small chassis.
Most of all experimentation is good, I agree with Whopperplate, breakout the clip leads!

[Guy77]

In an ac100, I tested the following F&Ts at the mains:

- 100uf 550v axial (special series for Frag Jan zuerst): fast, explosive response, good harmonics
- 2x 220uf 350v A series axial in series: slower, laxer. less aggressive and bold

All caps were slow-formed (voltage dropped to 2v across 100k resistor)

After going back and forth, there is a very clear difference. It affects response perhaps more than sound

Thats a very good point in regards to response time difference in caps. I have also noticed this difference with the first 2 series caps in the power supply. The IC and the Nichicon were a bit faster than the F&T A series.
This was comparing the 2x 100uf 350v A series F&T to the 2x100uf 350v IC and Nichicon PS series.
BTW this what the F&T look like inside.

CapsF&TInside.jpg

G.

[bepone]

In an ac100, I tested the following F&Ts at the mains:

- 100uf 550v axial (special series for Frag Jan zuerst): fast, explosive response, good harmonics
- 2x 220uf 350v A series axial in series: slower, laxer. less aggressive and bold

All caps were slow-formed (voltage dropped to 2v across 100k resistor)

After going back and forth, there is a very clear difference. It affects response perhaps more than sound

is it possible to put 2ohms in series with the cap and re test (like increasing ESR for purpose)

[Mark]

I like measurements. They help me quantify what I experience. I wish I had that spectrum analyzer R.G. had, that function of my Rigol scope is limited.
I agree anything real can be measured. Maybe not with the gear and process available to all of us, but it can help identify and filter out the variables in our hearing due to fatigue etc. True too is the fact that certain components, or combinations thereof, exhibit qualities that we recognize after using them in 40 or 50 builds without any measurements. Those differences are noted repeatedly over so much time and differing conditions that they are experientially valid.
Most builders use favored components for specific responses, noisy resistors or less than optmal caps. The limiting aspect of its construction or performance gives it a certain desired quality.. I understand the use of these to emulate the response of an iconic circuit,
Personally, I try to use foil caps for whatever I can, and metalized foil in lieu of electrolytics. Just my preference. Of course this is not possible in a clone or a small chassis.
Most of all experimentation is good, I agree with Whopperplate, breakout the clip leads!

Yeah, I’m the same way. I use a Ditto to play passages of guitar so I know the signal is exactly the same. I tried playing and listening, but I don’t play something exactly the same so that can introduce false positives.

I like to record the results to examine them again. Typically the video camera.

[WhopperPlate]

Yeah, I’m the same way. I use a Ditto to play passages of guitar so I know the signal is exactly the same. I tried playing and listening, but I don’t play something exactly the same so that can introduce false positives.

I like to record the results to examine them again. Typically the video camera.

Video camera test is my favorite for comparison . I like the idea of ditto to remove variables , but for myself those inconsistencies in playing actuality tell the whole story. I am a type of player that improvises mostly , so the way the amp responds and reacts under my fingers inspires entirely different playing one way or another . And even still , when I recite a passage of music certain setups will prevent my best .

In the end this is why I began building amps , in order to make myself an amplifier that supported and inspired my live playing. Many amplifiers can be setup to sound great , but feel not so great . Same goes for individual electronic components.

[R.G.]

Sigh.

[Mark]

Sigh.

Fair enough, I know you have mentioned this sort of thing time and time again. I do have great respect for your work and your opinions, but I do hear a difference between ceramic and silver mica caps and the difference is always the same.
I don’t know why they sound different, but they do sound different, the silver mica seems to let more signal through.

I’m happy to have my ignorance dispelled.

I did find this You Tube recording where the caps sound much as muchness.

https://youtu.be/ifC2A5QkbRY?si=MAlrOq-Ec8iwpv-d

[bepone]

There is a difference between laboratory technician and guitar player.. in listening but also perceiving the amp through playing...so this is true. There are people who are doing both worlds.

Then there are many many small things in playing which player can feel but lab tech not, like response in playing, slowness of the amp response, developing the harminucs during clean-crunch volume on the amp, where small difference in attack can be heard.. etc. million small things.

Also all the amps sound different, but im not sure that you can measure and what this (any kind of) measure will tell you if you are staring in it

[martin manning]

...I do hear a difference between ceramic and silver mica caps and the difference is always the same.
I don’t know why they sound different, but they do sound different, the silver mica seems to let more signal through.

Confirmation bias, anyone? ;^)

I did find this You Tube recording where the caps sound much as muchness.
https://youtu.be/ifC2A5QkbRY?si=MAlrOq-Ec8iwpv-d

Nice demonstration there, I hadn't heard that one before, and it's from a guy who is in the business of selling amp parts. Unfortunately, it's yet another of many such comparisons where some people claim they can hear a difference and others say there is none. This is the inevitable result unless more rigorous double-blind test protocols are followed, in which case history shows that whatever physical differences might exist in the components, differences in sound are not reliably perceived by humans. It is a little surprising in one way, and that is that there are measurable differences in the performance of the dielectric materials, and those do not seem to come out based on the inconclusive listener comments.

[WhopperPlate]

Sigh.

I see a general trend of technicians needing to see measurements in order to perceive any differences … especially counting those likes … nothing new or surprising really , same things I have been told my whole life by the arbiters of truth. It’s a good thing they don’t build my amps for me .

In the end it’s okay if you can’t hear a difference between a ceramic and a silver mica. The fact of the matter is many people apparently aren’t that sensitive . Hard thing to admit for most anyone if they take pride in their skills , but it doesn’t pay to disbelief the person with perfect pitch because you can’t find a tuner. Bruised egos can go both ways , and it’s easy to not be objective in the face of experienced testimony that contradicts our belief systems.

[xtian]

but it doesn’t pay to disbelief the person with perfect pitch because you can’t find a tuner.

Difference being, perfect pitch can be easily and repeatably tested and demonstrated.

[WhopperPlate]

but it doesn’t pay to disbelief the person with perfect pitch because you can’t find a tuner.

Difference being, perfect pitch can be easily and repeatably tested and demonstrated.

It’s an analogy. Either way considering everything I am not sure they would be believed if hypothetically there wasn’t access to tuner .