New F&T 100uf 350v caps: Tip Of The Week

[R.G.]

Another difference is that history has shown that very often careful(*) testing of the people who hear differences finds that their ability to hear a difference vanishes whenever the testing can be methodical enough to pin down whether they actually hear a difference or are getting visual or other clues instead of only hearing.

That is - careful testing shows that it's the people's opinion that gets tested, not the actual hardware that the opinion is supposed to be about. Many ABX blind tests show that the choices made by Golden Ears are ...worse... than random guessing could be expected to produce.

I do like the comment "it’s easy to not be objective in the face of experienced testimony that contradicts our belief systems." How true, how true. Much of the subjective versus objective audio/hifi/listening controversy is that humans seem to be built in a way that makes them want to develop a belief system - to have faith in some position. Once that faith is formed, it may not change even in the face of extreme evidence to the contrary. I also like a comment from the Project Rho/Atomic Rockets web site in the "respecting science" section.
"I don't 'believe' in science. I trust science. Science works whether I believe in it or not."

That being said, I am sure that your personal perception is much better and more realistic than the historical testing experience, and that you can perceive more subtly and reliably than any repeatable measurements available now. And I'm sure that you personally have not fallen prey to any of the multiple human listening and cognitive biases that have been identified.

* Well-set-up testing to eliminate clues other than the actual sound.

[maxkracht]

For those selling fancy caps:

It is difficult for a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

For those buying fancy caps:

Brand name drugs tend to work better than generics, even if you are aware the generic is the same.



To everyone else:

Tone is in your fingers. What are we even doing here?

[maxkracht]

No disrespect to anyone's beliefs. The more I learn about this stuff the more I realize I don't know anything.

[WhopperPlate]

Another difference is that history has shown that very often careful(*) testing of the people who hear differences finds that their ability to hear a difference vanishes whenever the testing can be methodical enough to pin down whether they actually hear a difference or are getting visual or other clues instead of only hearing.

That is - careful testing shows that it's the people's opinion that gets tested, not the actual hardware that the opinion is supposed to be about. Many ABX blind tests show that the choices made by Golden Ears are ...worse... than random guessing could be expected to produce.

I do like the comment "it’s easy to not be objective in the face of experienced testimony that contradicts our belief systems." How true, how true. Much of the subjective versus objective audio/hifi/listening controversy is that humans seem to be built in a way that makes them want to develop a belief system - to have faith in some position. Once that faith is formed, it may not change even in the face of extreme evidence to the contrary. I also like a comment from the Project Rho/Atomic Rockets web site in the "respecting science" section.
"I don't 'believe' in science. I trust science. Science works whether I believe in it or not."

That being said, I am sure that your personal perception is much better and more realistic than the historical testing experience, and that you can perceive more subtly and reliably than any repeatable measurements available now. And I'm sure that you personally have not fallen prey to any of the multiple human listening and cognitive biases that have been identified.

* Well-set-up testing to eliminate clues other than the actual sound.

Let me start by quoting my response to you in a different thread concerning the same subject matter :

This is why I relentlessly offer myself as sacrifice to the gods of scrutiny . If my claims are proven sketchy when my ears are tested in one of those idealized testing models then I will gladly admit my shortcomings . It does nothing for me to maintain a false perspective in the presence of contrary evidence … however I am confident my findings would hold up

Let me also reiterate that this is guitar… not hifi…as I and others have already noted the severe differences.

Regardless , whether or not anyone believes I can do the apparently impossible…… or bepone or whoever else says they prefer one cap or another …let me emphasize that usually I try to ask others what they think first. As I also already mentioned in the other thread: I am generally building for someone specifically not me.

In the past I have performed rather exhausting interviews on A vs B vs C ect with clients that generally have no idea what I am changing. I listen to them and watch their faces long enough to know when we are into something , and their decisions dictate when my work is over. Accumulated observations and notes help ensure I can predict a result and deliver to the client what they want without having to ask “A or B?”.

And I tell you what , it sure would be nice for someone to take over that job for me and give me a chance to ABX test and play myself with a million components in my stash , but alas there is a short supply of people who are competent enough to poke around inside an amplifier and also passionate enough about guitar to go down the rabbit hole , which is why I inevitably spend so much time on here talking to you nerds in between the rest of life .

[Mark]

...I do hear a difference between ceramic and silver mica caps and the difference is always the same.
I don’t know why they sound different, but they do sound different, the silver mica seems to let more signal through.

Confirmation bias, anyone? ;^)

Hi Martin, I also respect your opinion and knowledge, and you have kindly answered many of my questions which I appreciated. However, the issue I was having with the amp did stop with the change of component type. I haven’t had a moment where I heard the problem reemerge. Granted, that’s not scientific proof and there could have been many factors at play, but those were my observations.

[martin manning]

Mark, there is data showing that ceramic caps produce measurable distortion, depending on the dielectric type. In some cases it’s very little, comparable to mica, and in others it’s significant. It just struck me as funny when you said the difference is always exactly as you expect.

[Mark]

Mark, there is data showing that ceramic caps produce measurable distortion, depending on the dielectric type. In some cases it’s very little, comparable to mica, and in others it’s significant. It just struck me as funny when you said the difference is always exactly as you expect.

I perceive that the silver mica seems to pass more signal and seem to pass higher frequencies, the ceramic caps for lack of a better word sound softer. I don’t recall if I measured the caps, though I did have a multimeter that could measure capacitance values at the time.

Typically I have worked on Fender amps so that platform plays into it a lot. I remember replacing the 3000pF tone control caps on my Fender 6G7a bandmaster, the amp was duller as a result of the silver mica caps and I put the ceramic caps back in.

Is it possible that it’s conformational bias, that’s possible, though it’s not a conscious decision.

[WhopperPlate]

Is it possible that it’s conformational bias, that’s possible, though it’s not a conscious decision.

I trust your ears

[erwin_ve]

The comparison between a x5f ceramic and a CD19 mica is very noticable.
As Martin mentioned, voltage stress on a dielectric can cause distortion. For some dielectrics more than others.
I dont think I can specify between different ceramics but between those prevously mentioned , yes.

[maxkracht]

You also have potential for microphonics and differences in temperature stability depending on the ceramic type. I could see how either could cause noticeable, measurable, differences in a hot vibrating box.