Why it sounds different.. ?

[WhopperPlate]

OK, but back to the original question. Can it be measured, not just auditioned?

One way or another I am sure , I don’t have those resources to quantify every dynamic , but tell you what when you set up the double blind listening tests ( better to be blind playing , hearing the guitar under fingers is important ) you can use me as the Guinea pig and try to make a fool of me and my claims .

[bepone]

I'm very open to things affecting sound/tone/etc of amps. I just think that if some effect is real, there ought to be a way to measure it. And I'd love to find me some mid-range-y resistors, or percussive ones.

use koa speer with 716-716 Orange drops and there will be, bright middle, also is increased effect with stronger strumming (strong chicken picking)

[R.G.]

[...] you can use me as the Guinea pig and try to make a fool of me and my claims .

I'm not interested at all in making a fool of you or your claims. And I have no doubt at all that you really do hear what you say you hear.
My experience and learning just makes me believe that the sum total of what you (and I, and others) hear depends on a hugely vaster set of things than the brand of resistor or capacitor. Not the least of which is what you or I or others >see< while doing a listening test. Here's some fun reading, on https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing ... on.769887/ down at #37.

37. A blind test of old and new violins. Westerlunds Violinverkstand AB March 2006
This is really a bit of fun, but it again shows how we hear differently sighted to blind. In this test 6 violins, three c1700 (including a Stradivari) and three modern were played to a group of string teachers who cast votes 1 to 3 on their preferred violin. The stage was kept dark and they could not see which was which. The Stradivari came last, a modern brand won.
http://www.westerlunds.se/blindtesteng.htm

[maxkracht]

I wonder if some aspect of these preferences is what you are used to, or what you remember from formative years, not what is objectively better or worse. String teachers probably spend thousands of hours on good quality modern instruments, but rarely listen to a Strat in real life.



Is a 57 the best mic on snare and guitar cabinets, or are we just used to hearing them in nearly every recording? It’s not the most accurate and doesn’t have the best transient response, but it’s still what most pros reach for because it feels right. Will Zoomers be nostalgic for the sound of first generation AirPods? 


[WhopperPlate]

[...] you can use me as the Guinea pig and try to make a fool of me and my claims .

I'm not interested at all in making a fool of you or your claims. And I have no doubt at all that you really do hear what you say you hear.
My experience and learning just makes me believe that the sum total of what you (and I, and others) hear depends on a hugely vaster set of things than the brand of resistor or capacitor. Not the least of which is what you or I or others >see< while doing a listening test. Here's some fun reading, on https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing ... on.769887/ down at #37.

37. A blind test of old and new violins. Westerlunds Violinverkstand AB March 2006
This is really a bit of fun, but it again shows how we hear differently sighted to blind. In this test 6 violins, three c1700 (including a Stradivari) and three modern were played to a group of string teachers who cast votes 1 to 3 on their preferred violin. The stage was kept dark and they could not see which was which. The Stradivari came last, a modern brand won.
http://www.westerlunds.se/blindtesteng.htm

But if you can make a fool of me more power to all, if you can’t then more power to all .

For sake of clarity, it is implied that “brand” in this case is a general reference to each company’s component recipe , which as mentioned previously can indeed variate from each production run .

Determining a difference between A and B is one thing…but on the subject of what sounds best… like a violin….I am an adamant proponent of the philosophy that opinions are like assholes …

Who was playing the violin ? Which one did they prefer ? Who was blindly listening? What are their degrees of experience skill and ability? what would the layman conclude? Talk about a can of worms

I never thought Kirk Hammett sounded very good playing ol greenie either, sounds better with his modern whatever guitars. Does that mean greenie doesn’t sound good?

[martin manning]

Who was playing the violin ? Which one did they prefer ? Who was blindly listening? What are their degrees of experience skill and ability? what would the layman conclude?

You should read that short article. All of these questions are answered. http://www.westerlunds.se/blindtesteng.htm

[WhopperPlate]

Who was playing the violin ? Which one did they prefer ? Who was blindly listening? What are their degrees of experience skill and ability? what would the layman conclude?

You should read that short article. All of these questions are answered. http://www.westerlunds.se/blindtesteng.htm

I have read the article …they actually didn’t say what the players thought or preferred , nor did they have any layman in the judge panel .

Either way we are missing the point … it doesn’t matter if Bach and Paganini said it is the best sounding violin … or if Joe Shmoe and clueless Karen said it was … they would be both right and wrong … opinions about what is best do nothing for me . We can also start arguing about who the best guitarists are as well… Rollingstones top 250 anyone?

Having said that… you all should get some alligator clips and some koa resistors and spend some time experiencing… they aren’t the best or the worst, but they are percussive and bright in the upper midrange IME I don’t mind arguing about that

[WhopperPlate]

I wonder if some aspect of these preferences is what you are used to, or what you remember from formative years, not what is objectively better or worse. String teachers probably spend thousands of hours on good quality modern instruments, but rarely listen to a Strat in real life.



Is a 57 the best mic on snare and guitar cabinets, or are we just used to hearing them in nearly every recording? It’s not the most accurate and doesn’t have the best transient response, but it’s still what most pros reach for because it feels right. Will Zoomers be nostalgic for the sound of first generation AirPods? 


Well put

[R.G.]

I have no objection to someone saying that a resistor > in their opinion < sounds [insert opinion here]. I start having issues with statements of "X component does this" without that "in my opinion" and without any supporting measurements. Measurements can be instrumentation, or can be results of blind or ABX testing.

My problems all start with the fact that I have a professional engineering background with (at one time...) access to instruments that could measure frequency responses from DC to daylight, distortion figures down to nano-percent, and spectrum analysis to the n-th degree.

That was in fact how I found out back in the 1990s what the deal is with "magic" wah inductors - turns out that the ferrite in the originals was not particularly good and took a magnetic "set" that allowed some soft saturation to only one side of the magnetization. They really did sound different - they distorted.

I get back to - if it's real, it's at least conceptually possible to measure it. It's funny - when the hifi Golden Ears listeners started being embarassed by properly constructed listening tests, a few of them said that the act of testing itself could hide the hugely apparent differences they said they heard. Talk about the Emperor's New Ears.

[WhopperPlate]

Measurements can be instrumentation, or can be results of blind or ABX testing.

Measurements you personally trust*

My ears measure all the time . However the data log has to filter through my mouth. Maybe we can come up with a way to brain scan during abx testing ! Possibly might shine some light on things

That was in fact how I found out back in the 1990s what the deal is with "magic" wah inductors - turns out that the ferrite in the originals was not particularly good and took a magnetic "set" that allowed some soft saturation to only one side of the magnetization. They really did sound different - they distorted.

I love this , and thank you for that , I am not under the impression that magic is responsible for the percussive nature of koa resistors . I could be wrong .

Inevitably I wouldn’t build as many amps or have as much experience if I doubted my ears constantly without referencing them against a laboratory of testing gear, but it is certainly nice to have gentleman such as yourself who can’t simply trust their perceptions . All due respect , thanks

I get back to - if it's real, it's at least conceptually possible to measure it. It's funny - when the hifi Golden Ears listeners started being embarassed by properly constructed listening tests, a few of them said that the act of testing itself could hide the hugely apparent differences they said they heard. Talk about the Emperor's New Ears.

This is why I relentlessly offer myself as sacrifice to the gods of scrutiny . If my claims are proven sketchy when my ears are tested in one of those idealized testing models then I will gladly admit my shortcomings . It does nothing for me to maintain a false perspective in the presence of contrary evidence … however I am confident my findings would hold up

There is a thing though I gotta say about guitar vs hifi snobs, and that’s the simple fact that a guitarist is actually interacting with the sound source , and they are the largest variable , not the component themselves . How I feel when I play is the largest determining factor for the end recipe , and I have heard great sounding amps that played like you were running through sand . This is a dynamic that can actually fool me into thinking one thing is preferred over another, when in actuality it’s just easier to play and sounds not as good as my fingers have convinced my ears. Still , with this aspect at hand it is much harder to fool a blind player than a blind listener when discerning ABX .