Best paper for DIY printed circuit boards?

[Tonegeek]

I am trying a new technique to fabricate printed circuit boards. I have the process working well except for one part. I need to know what is the best paper to use for the step where you print your design to the laser printer. If anyone is interested, I learned the fabrication techniques from studying these resources:

http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKEe3otW ... r_embedded#

Unfortunately the paper these guys both recommend does not seem to be available. I tried the Staples photo basic for inkjet but it is not the same SKU as the one Gootee recommends. It transfers the pattern well, but does not release even with a long soak. So, long story short, can anyone recommend paper that will work in this application? I have read that HP transparency film works well, but haven't tried it. If all else fails, i will revert to PnP blue, but sure would like to get the cost savings of using paper.
Thanks

[M Fowler]

It has been many years since I built PCBs but I used dry toner printer with clear sheets not paper.

[Structo]

The two methods I have read about have been mentioned.

It also seems I have read about people using glossy magazine paper.

Using glossy laser photo paper is what I have read about being used the most.

So if you don't have a laser printer, you can take your layout to a print shop and I'm sure they can hook you up.

If cost isn't too big a problem and you are going to make multiple boards how about PCB Express?
They have a freeware PCB design program you make up your layout on then you send it to them.
They make the boards for you.
Not sure how much they charge but you would get pro looking boards.

Another thing is the etchant.
I have used the muriatic acid + hydrogen peroxide mix and it really does work well. The peroxide really does increase the acid's power.

[tele caster]

I have tried all the methods, and find transparent sheets and toner work the best for me. Make sure your boards are clean. Stainless or copper cleanser, steel wool or sos pad works well. Rinse and dry them and don't touch the copper with your fingers. When ironing the transfer, I set the iron to medium high heat, too high will melt and smear your transfer and you will have to start all over again. I like to use a small piece of plywood to iron on but any hard surface will do. I lightly warm the board first, then lay the transfer on the board and a sheet of paper over the tranfer. This helps the iron to slide over the transfer without sticking and smearing it. Two to three minutes of ironing should be enough. Let the board cool and gently pull up the corners and edges of the transfer. You will know if the transfer adhered to the board. A black sharpie works well to fill in any spots that didn't take to the board. Hope that helps anyone. One last thing, don't let your wife see you using the iron, might give her ideas.

[Deric]

I've tried several different papers and always go back to pnp blue. It just seems to be the most consistent and easier to work with (for me). It costs more but since I usually only etch smaller boards I get several boards from one sheet.

You do need to have a laser printer. Inkjets won't work.

Here's a relay board I just did for my latest build...

[BobW]

The two methods I have read about have been mentioned.

It also seems I have read about people using glossy magazine paper.

Using glossy laser photo paper is what I have read about being used the most.

So if you don't have a laser printer, you can take your layout to a print shop and I'm sure they can hook you up.

If cost isn't too big a problem and you are going to make multiple boards how about PCB Express?
They have a freeware PCB design program you make up your layout on then you send it to them.
They make the boards for you.
Not sure how much they charge but you would get pro looking boards.

Another thing is the etchant.
I have used the muriatic acid + hydrogen peroxide mix and it really does work well. The peroxide really does increase the acid's power.

What ratio of acid to peroxide do you suggest? thanks

[Aurora]

The old "Handbook for Radio Engineers" says 1:1:2 of acid, peroxide and water - acid and peroxide both 35% solutions........

[Structo]

That one article that was posted in the first post says what ratio to mix it.

Be sure to add the peroxide to the acid, not the acid to the peroxide.
I can't remember enough chemistry to remember the why, only it's a safety thing.

That mix also works great if you are into relicing guitars as well.

[soma_hero]

Staples used to have good basic photo gloss paper. Then they changed it this year, and you are correct the new stuff does not like to release!

Any basic photo gloss paper works well. I've used so many brands i don't have a standard. Never used PNP blue, never needed to. And I've made ADA flanger boards with toner on gloss paper too.

As far as using HCl and peroxide. I just mix equally with no water. Since the peroxide you get at the store is 3% you've got a mostly water solution. adding water just dilutes it more. I've used peroxide from hair salons that is about 10% and it does work faster. But 1:1 with 3% safeway peroxide and Home Depot muriatic acid does the job quite well.

**AND** never add water (in this case peroxide) to acid. Basic physics says liquids don't compress well and so the solution you pour pours in a straight path into your other solution causing it to splash. If you pour water into a tub of acid you're going to splash acid. Not really a big deal in this case, but in the lab it can get nasty with concentrated solutions.

Also, water and acid mixing releases a lot of heat. If you start with acid and add a bit of water you've now got a very concentrated solution releasing a ton of heat and in some cases it can boil over splashing acid evreywhere. If you add a little acid to water you've always got a dilute solution.

[Structo]

**AND** never add water (in this case peroxide) to acid. Basic physics says liquids don't compress well and so the solution you pour pours in a straight path into your other solution causing it to splash. If you pour water into a tub of acid you're going to splash acid. Not really a big deal in this case, but in the lab it can get nasty with concentrated solutions.

Also, water and acid mixing releases a lot of heat. If you start with acid and add a bit of water you've now got a very concentrated solution releasing a ton of heat and in some cases it can boil over splashing acid evreywhere. If you add a little acid to water you've always got a dilute solution.

Well I had a 50/50 chance of getting that right.
Thanks for correcting me. I wouldn't want anybody to get burned accidentally.

[Tonegeek]

so nobody has any specifics on the paper - bummer.

I think i will use PNP blue unless I hit it big like Brandon and Henry! Its going to cost me a fortune to figure out which photo paper works best just to do a few relay boards.

I used 2 parts peroxide to 1 part acid and it took about 10 minutes to etch a 1 ounce relay board in a very shallow tray. More quantity would have made it go faster, no doubt. no complaints there.

BTW Deric, your boards and construction quality look really good.

[tele caster]

Glossy paper works as well. Try some old porn magazines.

[ic-racer]

I used pages from a glossy magazine. Specifically, old issues of "F1"

Some transfers worked better than others. I used a Sharpie pen to fill in areas that peeled off. Some of mine did not work so well, but I just drew in the design with the Sharpie. In fact the curvilinear forms of the original Dumble traces look like they may have all been hand drawn originally.

[xk49w]

<snip>I used a Sharpie pen to fill in areas that peeled off. Some of mine did not work so well, but I just drew in the design with the Sharpie. In fact the curvilinear forms of the original Dumble traces look like they may have all been hand drawn originally.

Flashback. Back when I was a tech for a government contractor (late 70s) we did all of our prototypes on double sided g10, 1:1 manual layout and used a Sharpie for etch resist with a ferric chloride etchant. Boy am I glad those days are gone. We also dumped the spent etchant out the lab door, through a hole in the chain link fence and into a ditch. I'm glad those days are gone too. Now I use Eagle PCB for schematic capture and layout and BatchPCB to process.

[Tonegeek]

Glossy paper works as well. Try some old porn magazines.