PAYPAL Users Beware

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RJ Guitars
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PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by RJ Guitars » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:08 am

Most of you guys know that I work pretty hard at sorting out problems and tend to like to sort out solutions long after many folks give up. However, recently after about 10 years as a PAYPAL user, I am baffled at a problem they have tossed my direction. I am curious if anybody has a solution I haven't thought of yet.

I sold a guy some parts. He prepaid using his credit card through PAYPAL. I shipped off the goods and all was great. However, later that month his wife saw the charge on the credit card and they apparently had not talked and she reported it as an unauthorized charge. PAYPAL was sorta sneaky since I had already moved the funds to my banking account so they waited until another sale came through and then they snagged $400 from my account. I talked with the guy and he was cool, explained it all and said he would reissue the funds... that was back in June. He immediately contacted them and said send the money. At this time they have not only $400 of my money but also have charged the other guy $400 on his credit card. Now in there very unpersonal and impossible to refute or talk to a real person system, all I can get is a message that the transaction is under review and it may require up to 75 days to resolve...

So I go on to the web and look at PAYPAL freezing funds posts and find that there are literally hundreds of them out there and most folks are as helpless and baffled as I am. So I am curious, has anybody else seen this and do you have a solution? At this point it's like impossible to reconcile this with legitimate business practices and I've sent them numerous notes to any email address I can find for them and let them know I am reporting them to the State Attorney Generals Office.

What is the world coming to????

Firestorm
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by Firestorm » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:29 pm

You might want use snail mail for this. Write to their Legal Department in San Jose and maybe look up their registered agent for service in New Mexico. The have agents in all 50 states to receive lawsuit paperwork and other state-level notices. They used to use National Registered Agents Inc. and may still.

telentubes
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by telentubes » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:18 pm

I got burned for around a grand in an identical scenario with PayPal, in an amp sale some years back. After months of fighting with them, they basically said "Tough Shit, take the loss. It's stated in the fine print that you can expect this when doing business". And yes, it is stated in the fine print. PayPal is run by scammers and is a playground for same. I won't go near them. I hope you have a better outcome than I did.
P.S. And yes, they charged me a transaction fee to get ripped off.

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pompeiisneaks
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by pompeiisneaks » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:09 pm

Not speaking for paypal specifically, but credit cards provide you the exact same danger, someone can order something, and then once it arrives claim a fraud charge and have their money restored and the bank comes to you to pay them back or may not release the funds. I think this is more of a 'banks can screw you' kind of thing, paypal is basically just another bank. It's the risk you take when taking payments online from people in other states/countries. Sadly some of them are crooks. I also may suggest at least looking into some of the other services like square etc as they provide you a means of accepting many more payment forms online and in person, but I've not used them extensively.

Sorry to hear that these tools have screwed you guys over.

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mhartman
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by mhartman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:32 pm

I had this happen recently. I sold a guy a $2k amp. He claimed that it never arrived despite FedEx signature confirmation. Reverb.com, Paypal, and FedEx all claimed no responsibility for it. Similar to you, he paid with a credit card and had the credit card pull the funds back from Paypal, which they subsequently pulled form me. I am on the East Coast and he is on the West Coast. After months of trying to sort it out, I decided to part ways with the negative situation and take it as a (1) lesson and (2) a tax write off. In hind sight, I guess I'm just lucky that I'm not John Mayer selling a Dumble through Maverick Music (for a $100k+ loss).

Mike

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pompeiisneaks
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by pompeiisneaks » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:43 pm

mhartman wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:32 pm
In hind sight, I guess I'm just lucky that I'm not John Mayer selling a Dumble through Maverick Music (for a $100k+ loss).

Mike
I'd say it likely hurt you financially a lot more losing the amp you sold than John losing the Dumble :P

~Phil
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mhartman
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by mhartman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:25 pm

pompeiisneaks wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:43 pm
mhartman wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:32 pm
In hind sight, I guess I'm just lucky that I'm not John Mayer selling a Dumble through Maverick Music (for a $100k+ loss).

Mike
I'd say it likely hurt you financially a lot more losing the amp you sold than John losing the Dumble :P

~Phil
You're probably right! Either way, I hate to see the bad guys win.

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Scumback Speakers
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by Scumback Speakers » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:24 pm

Paypal tips from a 19 year user.

1) Call them, bypass the 1st three levels of bozos, or ask for a supervisor right off the bat.
2) Have the emails from the buyer ready to send.
3) Tell them as a loyal paypal user for 10 years, they always get their fee, you just want the
fees you earned.

Yes, you'll have to wait on hold, unless you're a business account like mine, then they give
you a PIN when they see your registered phone #.

Good luck.

Jim
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mhartman
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by mhartman » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:28 am

Thanks Jim. Great tips.

Regards,
Mike

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RJ Guitars
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by RJ Guitars » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:36 am

Yes Jim, those are solid pieces of advice to follow and I wasn't aware of those options since things had gone smoothly for so many years and never needed them.

Since it is only $400, it's not a life changing mess, just a warning shot that they have the potential to really make a mess of the financial status of a small business and they have a miserable resolution process. Also, they have really hidden the communication channels from the persons they ultimately need to make their business work. etc...

I've always asked folks to give PAYPAL their 3% and not try to slip things past as a gift so I want the same back from PAYPAL - take care of me. For the folks that don't know, you do get some sort of buyer protection and I get some seller protection when a legitimate PAYPAL transaction transpires... I am now wondering exactly what that is? It had a safe sounding ring to it when I initially read it. Also, on legit PAYPAL transactions I get a little better shipping price from UPS and USPS which I tend to pass that back to the buyers since I don't try to turn a profit on shipping.

In this case the buyer I am dealing with has agreed to send me a direct payment since neither he nor his credit card company has been able to get PAYPAL to unfreeze the funds. This buyer is a genuinely good guy and really tried hard on his end to get things sorted out within the existing system... so in the end I'll get my money but PAYPAL has a black eye and I have a skeptical one toward them as well.

Thanks for all the good thoughts and allowing me a platform to vent this out a bit.

rj

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johnnyreece
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by johnnyreece » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:16 pm

Wow, glad it looks like you're at least dealing with an honest person. Hope everything works the way you expect it to!

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Scumback Speakers
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by Scumback Speakers » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:04 pm

Ultimately, it's the wife that caused this problem, not the husband. But everyone is sure going to a lot of extra legwork here to make up for her not calling her husband and just asking first.

Why do my wife & I have separate credit cards and checking accounts? Oh, just for what RJ is going through. We shared a credit card, once. Not sure how this happened, and obviously a scam...but imagine my surprise when my Visa card shows an $8,000 payment to a cup cake shop in Long Beach, CA.?

Right, $8000 worth of cupcakes? Sure, she apologized, and sure the card company canceled it, changed my card, yada yada...but seriously...who in the f**k gets $8,000 worth of cupcakes via a telephone order with no shipping address or pickup time.

So that's when I permanently separated our finances, just because somehow someone got the card #, exp date, yada yada...while it was in her possession.
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M Fowler
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by M Fowler » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:23 pm

Not good to hear what your going through Bob.

Like Jim said my wife and I also have separate accounts always have our whole marriage which works out very well.

Also, for overseas purchases I have a $500 credit limit on one card.

Mark

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Scumback Speakers
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by Scumback Speakers » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:31 pm

During the course of our marriage my income used to be three times what my wife made,
now it's the reverse. She's probably happy I separated our finances since she did so well
at her corporate job! LOL
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Re: PAYPAL Users Beware

Post by telentubes » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:53 am

RJ, You mentioned the seller protection... Here is how it went down in my situation. The way it was explained to me by one of their "supervisors" was that they have a rating system for all sales, and only have protection for the highest rated. So if your transaction is sketchy in any way, it has a low rating and it is NOT protected. So my question to them was, "Why don't you indicate to the seller when you think a sale may be sketchy"? (I throw in here the amazing amount of personal information I had to give to PayPal to get an account. All the stuff your parents tell you not to give out. All the information they needed to keep me "safe") .Their answer was... "Oh, we rate the sales AFTER they go through, and if they go south, we lower the rating to one that has no protection or recourse, and we don't tell you what the original rating was". PayPal's whole marketing shtick is "safety", and sorry folks, but it's nothing more than a marketing ploy, a scam.
PayPal has tens of thousands of complaints just like these. Not the kind of business I can support.

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