OK...I'm gone

[drhulsey]

Pissed off or pissed on it all makes for a lively discussion.

Frankly, I'd rather be PISSED OFF. Some of my best rhetoric has been composed in that state.
Pissed on, I'm just lookin' to change my clothes

[Tubetwang]

I just count my blessings...

Happier that way...

I'm the eldest aroud Ampgarage...Circa 49'...

Matter of attitude really... as nothing will ever be poifect...if i may say...
If it's nice i stay...not nice? i move on...

I've been tortured, had paralitic Polio at 10/spent one year in a bedcast, Migraine sufferer sice 15, have Post-Polio-Syndrome, took early retirement at 50 because diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and took a weekend strawbail-clay workshop 2 years ago. We have a nice country place in the mountains 50 miles from Vermont with lakes everywhere were i plan to die rocking in PEACE...I want to make the best of my last 20 years on this planet doing my best for the planet and mankind.

My middle name is ...huh...compassion...

Be happy
Pretty please???

[leaveitalone84]

The problem with the distribution of wealth in this country has to do with 1 major undercurrent for the past 60-70 years.

It is the run-away inflation the Federal Reserve System (privately held bank, not a Gov't entity) has created which has basically held our government hostage since the FRS was established.

Run away inflation is a hidden tax on the middle and lower income classes. In undermines our buying power. As you've probably come to see with the CAN$ and US$ debackle.

That is the true cause of incredibly high Oil prices and other commodities. Oil has stayed the same relatively compared to Gold.

We all need to realize this country is BROKE and to start pressing our candidates/representatives to start policies of sound money. The FRS is printing more and more money to pay for an unconstitutional war. Bankrupting us even more.

Germany turned out real well in the 20's and 30's after it started printing money to pay for all its debts.

Turn to the presidential candidate that speaks about sound money, not spending more of it for special projects. Hint: there is really only 1.

If anyone wants to talk economics and such PM me, I've got a lot to say; probably about things you've never heard of. Which are things all Americans should know.

/soapbox off

[CaseyJones]

I've been tortured,

Me too. It builds character. It's among those things that if they don't kill you hopefully it will make you stronger.

had paralitic Polio at 10/spent one year in a bedcast,

Mine wasn't quite paralytic. I wore braces for a good many years. It remains to be seen how long my body continues to work.

Migraine sufferer since 15,

Migraine sufferer since something heavy landed on my head. I can tolerate any level of noise, it's light I can't stand.

have Post-Polio-Syndrome,

Don't know about that one. Maybe if we had socialized medicine here they'd add that to my list.

took early retirement at 50 because diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

I keep wondering about that. Refer to "if we had socialized medicine here".

Is this "early retirement"? They say I "don't work well with others". Not a team player. I don't give a damn, teams are for little kids playin' grammar school games. Once you understand that no one really "grows up" and that most of 'em are just playin' games it gets a whole lot easier.

The great thing about CFS? Never a problem sleeping! Not unless you mix depression and its associated sleep disorders with it. That's rough!

[Jack]

As a baby boomer I think I was taught a lot of values lost on the younger generations.
It's a busy world these days and teaching kids to respect others seems to have been lost in the shuffle.

I'm only 38, but I wasn't raised to be as disrespectful as much of our younger generation has become. A lot of this can be attributed to the dismantling of "The New Deal" that built our middle class to be strong and prosperous. Families could live very comfortably on one income. Now most every family has to rely on dual incomes and/or multiple jobs to get by. This generation (including me to some extent) was raised by our television networks and video game consoles. Parents need to be afford the time to raise their kids in a proper manner, but that's not as important as rewarding CEOs and other Corp Execs with 7 figure bonuses, massive options, grants, warrants, etc.

A recent study have shown that each and every generation since 1920 said of younger generations that "they were worst then them" in each and every field: writting skills, science, math, ethics, etc. Besides, I personnally consider that bagging the whole "new generations" with such generalization to be a lack of respect in and of itself.

Sorry but stuff like that pisses me off! That goddamn "Our generation rules the other sucks!!!" insert puke emoticon. (And don't forget YOU were the ones to raise them like that )

[dartanion]

As a baby boomer I think I was taught a lot of values lost on the younger generations.
It's a busy world these days and teaching kids to respect others seems to have been lost in the shuffle.

I'm only 38, but I wasn't raised to be as disrespectful as much of our younger generation has become. A lot of this can be attributed to the dismantling of "The New Deal" that built our middle class to be strong and prosperous. Families could live very comfortably on one income. Now most every family has to rely on dual incomes and/or multiple jobs to get by. This generation (including me to some extent) was raised by our television networks and video game consoles. Parents need to be afford the time to raise their kids in a proper manner, but that's not as important as rewarding CEOs and other Corp Execs with 7 figure bonuses, massive options, grants, warrants, etc.

A recent study have shown that each and every generation since 1920 said of younger generations that "they were worst then them" in each and every field: writting skills, science, math, ethics, etc. Besides, I personnally consider that bagging the whole "new generations" with such generalization to be a lack of respect in and of itself.

Sorry but stuff like that pisses me off! That goddamn "Our generation rules the other sucks!!!" insert puke emoticon. (And don't forget YOU were the ones to raise them like that )

I'm not saying my generation is better than others, I am only pointing out the degeneration of our society.

About the comments about not knowing rural life, I grew up in a rural area and have lived in rural areas post leaving home. I actually prefer living in the sticks. I grew up in Minnesota, so I also know there is a lot great land available there, but since I spent 30 years between living in MN, IA, and WI; I can live elsewhere now.

I am a greenie and have been for most of my life. I drive small fuel efficient vehicles (even a hybrid now that gets 45-50 mpg), my next one to be a diesel so that I can make my own fuel My home remodel was done with mostly green materials (soy based insulation, passive solar, dual pane low E windows and doors, hemp based countertops, recycled glass tiles, etc.). I am politically active and vote in every primary and election as well as keep in touch with my representatives in local, state, and federal government. I became vegan after realizing the big picture effects of corporate farming. I contribute to numerous charities that support my views. Blah, blah, blah! I know that I cannot save the world alone, but if I can get a few others around me to make small changes, then I am having a positive effect on society.

Anyway, this has gone way off topic, but thanks mchauk for starting a very engaging and interesting conversation!

[CaseyJones]

About the comments about not knowing rural life, I grew up in a rural area and have lived in rural areas post leaving home. I actually prefer living in the sticks. I grew up in Minnesota, so I also know there is a lot great land available there, but since I spent 30 years between living in MN, IA, and WI; I can live elsewhere now.

I am a greenie and have been for most of my life. I drive small fuel efficient vehicles (even a hybrid now that gets 45-50 mpg), my next one to be a diesel so that I can make my own fuel My home remodel was done with mostly green materials (soy based insulation, passive solar, dual pane low E windows and doors, hemp based countertops, recycled glass tiles, etc.). I am politically active and vote in every primary and election as well as keep in touch with my representatives in local, state, and federal government. I became vegan after realizing the big picture effects of corporate farming. I contribute to numerous charities that support my views. Blah, blah, blah! I know that I cannot save the world alone, but if I can get a few others around me to make small changes, then I am having a positive effect on society.

Cool! Then you're ready. Good plan gettin' outta California, that place is NUTS!

The average farmer cares naught about politics, that's why they're gettin' screwed. Well, maybe they do care about politics but too often they're fooled by a guy in a suit talkin' Church and family. The rhetoric is church and family, the reality is cash and power.

Too bad about the vegan thing. If God hadn't intended us to eat animals then why did He (She?) make them outta MEAT??!!!

As a baby boomer I think I was taught a lot of values lost on the younger generations.
It's a busy world these days and teaching kids to respect others seems to have been lost in the shuffle.

I'm only 38, but I wasn't raised to be as disrespectful as much of our younger generation has become. A lot of this can be attributed to the dismantling of "The New Deal" that built our middle class to be strong and prosperous. Families could live very comfortably on one income. Now most every family has to rely on dual incomes and/or multiple jobs to get by. This generation (including me to some extent) was raised by our television networks and video game consoles. Parents need to be afford the time to raise their kids in a proper manner, but that's not as important as rewarding CEOs and other Corp Execs with 7 figure bonuses, massive options, grants, warrants, etc.

A recent study have shown that each and every generation since 1920 said of younger generations that "they were worst then them" in each and every field: writting skills, science, math, ethics, etc. Besides, I personnally consider that bagging the whole "new generations" with such generalization to be a lack of respect in and of itself.

Sorry but stuff like that pisses me off! That goddamn "Our generation rules the other sucks!!!" insert puke emoticon. (And don't forget YOU were the ones to raise them like that )

Yeah, but our generation RULES and your generation SUCKS!!!

Hold on to that sentiment, you're right. I had my loud guitar and I used it to piss off my parents. This generation has their boomy-boom gangsta music, bikini tattoos, jailhouse pants hangin' around their hips and more piercings than I care to count. It's a fashion statement. It's not a political statement. It looks to me like the kids are too busy playin' X-Box and talkin' on their cel phones to be concerned about politics.

The Clash said:

"Every gimmick hungry yob
Diggin' gold from rock 'n' roll
Grabs the mic to tell us...
He'll die before he's sold!"

And:

"Every cheap hood makes a bargain with the World
He ends up makin' payments on a sofa and a girl!"

So hold that thought. If it sucks make it better. By the time the next generation comes along you'll be us and they'll be you.

[skyboltone]

Look. Things are better. In the '50s when cops saw a black man driving a Lincoln they'd pull him over because they figured he stole it. Nobody retired at 55 except trust funders. I'm a tradesman and I made it out two months after turning 55. Probably the last of the defined benifit retirement plans; fully funded thanks to Jimmy Hoffa and other gangsters. While Congress gave big corporations the right to run pension plans based on future profits, trade unionists were required to fully fund their plans to keep the organizers from stealing it all. My income in miniscule by Silicon Valley Standards but by the time all the dust settles at age 62 my income will be 6 figures. The only reason I live in this hellhole is because my health insurance is free here. (Union benifit) If I move to Washington State I gotta find an additional 800 or so a month because that benifit is not portable. ERISA my ass. But with the State income tax I pay and none in Washington, I'd about break even except I'd have to qualify for insurance and have pre existing conditions that get in the way. Anyway, nobody retired at 55 in the olden days. Ever. You worked till you died.

You thirty-somethings are going to pay the biggest price. You gotta pay down the debt boys. That's all there is to it. It ain't multi national corporations driving the dollar down it's Congress willing to sell it's ass to the highest bidder and that printing press they got in Wash DC. Just like the corporate defined benifit pension plans, (failing by the dozens) the government has been given a by on funding future debt. China will be the worlds leading economy in my lifetime because they are willing to finance that debt while enforcing the "Want Less" principal on their own people.

Now there's a ramble for you. Hey, you want to solve the Social Security problem, (Dart, yer gonna hate this because you're already paying double) eliminate the cap on the social security tax. If you get a 200 million dollar bonus in the form of options, you pay 8.3% into social security. Right now everything you make over (is it?) $88k is exempt from SS tax. Hummmm. Why?

Enough.
Dan

[mlp-mx6]

Just my opinion - Social Security should not be fixed, it should be stopped. As in done away with.

In the first place, it is a pyramid scheme. In the second place, it encourages regular, ongoing dependence on government for things government should only provide in emergency or crisis situations. In the third place, it gives politicians too much sway over the economy, since they cannot keep their spendy hands out of that cookie jar. All that is in there anymore is a big pile of IOUs.

Current or near-term retirees should get the payments they are expecting. The rest of us should be released from the program, or make it voluntary such that it would pay for itself.

Just my opinion.

[CaseyJones]

You thirty-somethings are going to pay the biggest price. You gotta pay down the debt boys. That's all there is to it. It ain't multi national corporations driving the dollar down it's Congress willing to sell it's ass to the highest bidder and that printing press they got in Wash DC. Just like the corporate defined benefit pension plans, (failing by the dozens) the government has been given a by on funding future debt. China will be the worlds leading economy in my lifetime because they are willing to finance that debt while enforcing the "Want Less" principal on their own people.

TESTIFY, brother!

The hilarious part of this is we're all righteous by our own standards. Pick one:

I'm righteous because I've suffered.

I'm righteous because I don't eat meat.

I'm righteous because I contribute.

I'm righteous because I don't contribute to those people.

I'm righteous because I grow your food.

I'm righteous because I grow my own food.

I'm righteous because I go to church.

I'm righteous because I don't go to church.

I'm righteous because I support my family

and on and on up to the point where I'm righteous because you suck and I rule. So what? Then I'll kill you because I'm righteous and it's righteous to kill you. Then your kin will kill me because it's righteous to kill me. So it goes.

BTW this is an example, I don't advocate killin' anyone or anything. Except maybe cows 'cuz they're made of MEAT!

[skyboltone]

TESTIFY, brother!

The hilarious part of this is we're all righteous by our own standards

Amen brother Jones.

[Tubetwang]

took early retirement at 50 because diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

I keep wondering about that. Refer to "if we had socialized medicine here".



Don't get me wrong Casey...

Nobody's is paying my way to the grave...i've got private insurance...Lipitor and Imitrex are'nt cheap in Canada

Just a middle class kid who worked hard, built his company with sweat and money saved...until he could no longer fonction...

Probably why i'm a happy dude today...I've earned the last 20 years on this planet Earth...

[dartanion]

I didn't say that all things are worse now. It's give and take. The technology in modern medicine is fantastic and affords us a nice long life expectancy...that is if you have access to modern health care through health insurance. Even then it's like pulling teeth to get the care you need. Take it if you can get it.

In the 50s and 60s, most families did well with one income. We gave that up decades ago.

Social Security is not what most people make it out to be. It's an insurance policy that acts as a safety net for those that no longer bring in an income, not just for retirees. Anyone that has been disabled from a work related accident can be eligible for SS Disability benefits. Let's say you loose a limb at work and can no longer earn a living doing your current job. Or you are brain damaged, or some other horrible thing. Who is going to take care of you? Your employer certainly isn't going to do that, they'd just as soon terminate your employment. You better have your own disability insurance without SS. If we eliminate SS, what are we to do with all the people that will be living on the streets?

Corporations used to provide for their employees with health benefits, pensions, and other benefits that were paid for by the corp. Now name a corp that still provides pensions (to all employees)? Good luck finding one. You think a 401K or IRA is the answer? The 401K was originated when top executives at a couple of large corps needed a tax shelter, so they lobbied for this entity to be enacted. This allowed these executives to take income from bonuses and stash them away tax free. It has now become a loophole for corporations to pass the buck to the employee for providing retirement benefits. Yes, it's nice to have, but for most folks in doesn't amount to much as they are all linked to company profits and whatever fund management firm administrates your 401K funds. Company matching is also unfairly handed out. The average employee gets a fractional match based upon company performance...you're lucky to a few pennies on the dollar for a match, or no match at all. Even if you max out, this is not enough to live off of if you only get modest returns on the funds. Executives are treated in a very different way. If you have ever read the employment contracts that executives get, you'd be shocked. There's something the average worker will never get...an employment contract that states salary + increases, benefits, 401K matching, private insurance policies, golden parachute clauses, personal loans and forgiveness clauses, etc. It's lunacy. As a corporation, I can match my employees contributions up to a total of $40K/year. Since I own my own corporation, I certainly do this for my employees (myself and my wife, but hope to hire more people this year). This allows me to take $80K per year and stash it away tax free for retirement. The average worker maybe puts away $5000 per year with a pittance for employer contribution.

Anyway, I could rant on this all day.

Great discussion guys.

[CaseyJones]

Don't get me wrong Casey...

Nobody's is paying my way to the grave...i've got private insurance...Lipitor and Imitrex are'nt cheap in Canada.

I guarantee no one is paying my way to the grave. I'm not, the government isn't, the insurance companies aren't. Last time I went to the hospital was because I couldn't stop the bleeding.

ISocial Security is not what most people make it out to be. It's an insurance policy that acts as a safety net for those that no longer bring in an income, not just for retirees. Anyone that has been disabled from a work related accident can be eligible for SS Disability benefits. Let's say you loose a limb at work and can no longer earn a living doing your current job. Or you are brain damaged, or some other horrible thing. Who is going to take care of you? Your employer certainly isn't going to do that, they'd just as soon terminate your employment. You better have your own disability insurance without SS. If we eliminate SS, what are we to do with all the people that will be living on the streets?

I know this one. Back in the day they had the County Farm and Potter's Field. They'd take care of you at the County Farm when you were no longer able to take care of yourself then bury you in a knotty pine box out in Potter's Field.

Later the County Farm gave way to the State Hospital. Just about every state had one, some of them are in ruins, some of them have been put to other uses. Part of Bellevue in NYC is now a Columbia University dorm.

The State Hospital I gather was primarily a mental institution, IMHO the last vestiges of the Dark Ages played out at the State Hospital. Not just for looney tunes, I'm sure you could live out your days there if you were in poor health and had no other options.

There is no more County Farm or State Hospital.

[mlp-mx6]

Social Security is not what most people make it out to be. It's an insurance policy that acts as a safety net for those that no longer bring in an income, not just for retirees. Anyone that has been disabled from a work related accident can be eligible for SS Disability benefits. Let's say you loose a limb at work and can no longer earn a living doing your current job. Or you are brain damaged, or some other horrible thing. Who is going to take care of you? Your employer certainly isn't going to do that, they'd just as soon terminate your employment. You better have your own disability insurance without SS. If we eliminate SS, what are we to do with all the people that will be living on the streets?

If I'm reading you correctly, for the most part you're referring to the "emergency or crisis situations" I cited earlier. I agree with a government "presence" in these situations. The VAST majority of SS is not used for that, nor intended (by the recipients, anyway) for that.

I guess you could say I'm generally against dependency on the government. (again, excepting crisis situations, including some that last a LONG time)

And, while I would empathize with someone in one of those situations, the employer actually owes nothing there. A person's life is that person's responsibility, or it should be. That responsibility should not be handed off to anyone or anything else. However, our society has developed a LOT of unhealthy expectations... and addictions.

I, too, appreciate the discussion.