The eagles on tour

[Teleguy61]

I agree with all comments above.
When the kick drum is by far the loudest instrument in the mix, and that's what the audience wants, and worse yet, likes, it stops being music for me.
Apparently a significant proportion of contemporary audiences don't believe they are being entertained unless they are experiencing chest compression with every hit on the kick.

[NickC]

A few years ago I saw Bob Dylan play the large outdoor venue at the New York State Fair. The band was fantastic. But Bob's voice was completely shot, his range was about three half-steps and that was it. He played electric piano the whole night.

The two guitar players were great! They both used Vox AC30's mic'ed up through the mains.

It was the BEST quality sound I've ever heard at a major outdoor venue. It was loud-as-hell, and clear as a bell. Very well balanced.

The Waif's (from Australia) opened. They were absolutely wonderful, and their sound was pristine. Their songs relied on tight vocal harmonies, and they used hand percussion into the mics. I could hear everything crystal clear.

[cbass]

I seen Bob in like 2001 at Memphis in may he was the last show of the whole weekend everyone had left there was like 150 people in the crowd and he and his band absolutely tore it down played for about two and a half hours like there was 15000 in the crowd.
I even had some interaction with Bob.

[drew]

I agree with all comments above.
When the kick drum is by far the loudest instrument in the mix, and that's what the audience wants, and worse yet, likes, it stops being music for me.
Apparently a significant proportion of contemporary audiences don't believe they are being entertained unless they are experiencing chest compression with every hit on the kick.

I went to see Robben Ford last night. The venue is a beautiful, restored small movie theater in Modesto, CA. The opening act -- Austin-type country rock girl singer with acoustic guitar, bass, drums, really good honky tonk Tele player -- had a great sound mix. Then Robben comes on, and it's a mess. The drummer would have been too loud if he was completely unmiked, in one of those plexiglass cages, and set up in the hofbrau next door to the theater, but unfortunately none of those things were the case. The sound guy turns the kick drum up to Electronic Dance Music/detonating thermonuclear device level, and the cymbals are also painfully loud. Then the bass player plays half the numbers on a full sized standup bass with a pickup; it's very loud and bright, somewhat distorted, and not very musical. (There's also a guy playing B3, but he's not very audible except when soloing.) Sound guy turns Robben up to try to cut through this full spectrum of noise, and it's very shrill and loud and loses all the dynamics. The only times you could really hear the Dumbles cleanly were a couple quieter songs when the band hung back. Pretty disappointing.

[For completists: he had the black Dumble, and the tan Dumble. He had a bunch of pedals, and spent the first number tap-dancing on them, then seemed to mostly leave them alone. He played a blond Tele on about 2/3 of the songs, and a red SG-type guitar which seemed to have something other than the Gibson logo on the other 1/3.]

[M Fowler]

I agree with all comments above.
When the kick drum is by far the loudest instrument in the mix, and that's what the audience wants, and worse yet, likes, it stops being music for me.
Apparently a significant proportion of contemporary audiences don't believe they are being entertained unless they are experiencing chest compression with every hit on the kick.

I went to see Robben Ford last night. The venue is a beautiful, restored small movie theater in Modesto, CA. The opening act -- Austin-type country rock girl singer with acoustic guitar, bass, drums, really good honky tonk Tele player -- had a great sound mix. Then Robben comes on, and it's a mess. The drummer would have been too loud if he was completely unmiked, in one of those plexiglass cages, and set up in the hofbrau next door to the theater, but unfortunately none of those things were the case. The sound guy turns the kick drum up to Electronic Dance Music/detonating thermonuclear device level, and the cymbals are also painfully loud. Then the bass player plays half the numbers on a full sized standup bass with a pickup; it's very loud and bright, somewhat distorted, and not very musical. (There's also a guy playing B3, but he's not very audible except when soloing.) Sound guy turns Robben up to try to cut through this full spectrum of noise, and it's very shrill and loud and loses all the dynamics. The only times you could really hear the Dumbles cleanly were a couple quieter songs when the band hung back. Pretty disappointing.

[For completists: he had the black Dumble, and the tan Dumble. He had a bunch of pedals, and spent the first number tap-dancing on them, then seemed to mostly leave them alone. He played a blond Tele on about 2/3 of the songs, and a red SG-type guitar which seemed to have something other than the Gibson logo on the other 1/3.]

So is this a case of FOH not setting the system up prior to start of show, or FOH did do pre-show check but the building dynamics changed once people were seated or individual musicians adjusting their sound on their own which messed up FOH?

[Leo_Gnardo]

So is this a case of FOH not setting the system up prior to start of show, or FOH did do pre-show check but the building dynamics changed once people were seated or individual musicians adjusting their sound on their own which messed up FOH?

Or just having the wrong FOH mixer, period. There are plenty of no-talents around, and how they get their gigs and paychecks is beyond me. (Reminds me of Wall Street, banks, big biz and government, let's not get started....) Some of my customers & friends complain about the mixes they're subjected to. The guy who runs the local coffee shop went up to the local thousand-seater to see an acoustic act - The Angel Band including Dave Bromberg - and nearly had his ears blown out. Totally inappropriate volume. He won't be forking out any money to see his former favorite folkie again.

Lots of could-bes. Could be the manager didn't want to pay for a quality, talented mixer. Or somebody's friend/relative got the position. Had to slot in somebody, anybody because the regular FOH couldn't be there, he's sick, injured, wife's having a kid, he's in jail, got a better deal from another band, whatever. The band's deaf, or they assume the audience is deaf. Etc, etc. etc. Heck some guys mix in headphones and have NO idea what the audience is hearing.

There are some good mixers out there. If you get to see a show mixed by David Lohr or Mike Keating, you'll be in for a treat. I last saw Dave working with John Hiatt, and Mike with Jewel. But they move around a lot - who knows what they're up to now.

[drew]

I don't know what the story was. Do the acoustics of carpeted, high-ceilinged, soft-seated theaters that don't have dance floors, tables or other hard surfaces change much when they're filled with people instead of empty? I really don't know. I don't think the musicians were turning themselves up. I don't think I saw Robben touch his amps at all. (I wasn't even sure they were on, at first; the indicator lights were completely washed out by the stage lighting.)

Robben had issues with the sound from the get-go. As soon as he came on stage and picked up his guitar and strummed it, he said "wow, this seems loud in here - are you sure?" , then made another remark about gradually getting the sound right after the first song, then a few songs later called the band off after starting a song because there was some weird sound coming from somewhere, and had some words for the sound guy. He actually seemed somewhat sour-pussed and annoyed throughout the show, although I'd never seen him before, so I may be misreading him. Part of it was that there was some kind of disturbance going on with a front row center patron, which the security guy clumsily dealt with by not once, but twice, going down and talking to the guy in the middle of songs, instead of waiting for breaks. (Clueless security guy, clueless sound guy -- maybe they're related?)

[Leo_Gnardo]

I don't know what the story was. Do the acoustics of carpeted, high-ceilinged, soft-seated theaters that don't have dance floors, tables or other hard surfaces change much when they're filled with people instead of empty? I really don't know.

Not by much. Each person is "worth" about 2 sabins, a sabin being the equivalant of a square foot of open window, the sound goes out but doesn't come back in. If the room is already very absorbent, and geometrically broken-up then the addition of an audience doesn't matter so much, compared to a room that has little or no absorbency.

Robben had issues with the sound from the get-go. As soon as he came on stage and picked up his guitar and strummed it, he said "wow, this seems loud in here - are you sure?" , then made another remark about gradually getting the sound right after the first song, then a few songs later called the band off after starting a song because there was some weird sound coming from somewhere, and had some words for the sound guy. He actually seemed somewhat sour-pussed and annoyed throughout the show, although I'd never seen him before, so I may be misreading him. Part of it was that there was some kind of disturbance going on with a front row center patron, which the security guy clumsily dealt with by not once, but twice, going down and talking to the guy in the middle of songs, instead of waiting for breaks. (Clueless security guy, clueless sound guy -- maybe they're related?)

And the clueless guy causing the disturbance, maybe they're all 3 related. But people do the stoooooopidest things these days, including trying to broadcast or record concerts with cell phones, fancy cameras etc. Last concert I went to, nearby punters were at it all thru the show, even farting around checking their stock quotations, email & who knows what else while the show was going on. These morons paid $75 a ticket just like I did and missed 85% of the show. Oh well, it's an epidemic...

Maybe Robben's depending on the house sound wherever he goes, doesn't carry a mixer person as part of the concert team. If that's the case, it's sink or swim wherever you go. The remark's been made within the last couple of days, the left coast is cram-jammed with big attitude no-talent FOH mixers. Oh but they're so smaaaart - they all have college degrees that prove they know what they're doing. Heaven help us. And it ain't just the West coast folks, that kind of biz is all over the place now.

You could put in a complaint to the top management of that theater. If they hear enough flak from the audience maybe they'll change out their in-house FOH person. Sometimes, in a venue that's very busy, the sound & light techs are burned out too, and just don't give a @#$%. Sometimes you have mixers that are set on one kind of music, heavy metal, or droning shoe-gazer, hiphop, whatever, and are entirely non-understanding of music that's outside their liking. I've even been on tours with top musos who should know better, and they select FOH mixers that are totally inappropriate in that way, making for a series of disastrous shows. It's a real damn shame when that happens because it reflects poorly on the artist, and will result in fewer concert and album sales. In the computer age, the word gets around fast, on fan websites, twitter, etc.

[TUBEDUDE]

Saw the Eagles in Frankfurt just after Hotel California came out. Almost got crushed out front when the crowd surged and the gates weren't opened. Nosebleed seats, reverberate sports venue, cheap hash smoke clouds. All that, and the part I remember as being the worst was how they couldn't organize the set list. One slow old eagles tune followed by an upbeat Walsh tune, then desperado followed by another slow ballad. Positively schizophrenic.
The best venue for sound and sight I've been to in the last 20 years is the Variety Playhouse in Atl. Saw Holdsworth, Rippingtons, Yellowjackets and more there. Absolutely great sound! Not a bad seat to be had.
Saw Yes multiple times in the last 35 years, and they had flawless sound indoors or out.
Many bands may lose.a little over the years but Jeff Beck just gets better and better.

[martin manning]

Here's a quote from Donald Fagen's book:
"As I've mentioned before, the old theaters often look great, but "standing waves" and other factors create acoustic chaos. At the sound check I was out front with Joe for half an hour just trying to get the drums not to sound like a broken Vitamix blender in a parking garage."

[briane]

These morons paid $75 a ticket just like I did and missed 85% of the show. Oh well, it's an epidemic...

I hate to admit it - but these blowhards lost me a long time ago charging top $$ and putting on crappy shows.

May be a top act - but if the support is crap - then the whole gigs crap.

I gave up going to most concerts when I realized I was getting about 10$ in value - for 80 bucks.

what a bunch of morons putting on these shows nowadays.

I guess if you have a ton of drugs in your system it seems like a good deal...

Wish they could/would get the act together...now back to your regular programming.

[Teleguy61]

I've had a lot more success going to shows in 225-300 seat venues.
Saw Robben in a 285 seat venue and they sounded great.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

These morons paid $75 a ticket just like I did and missed 85% of the show. Oh well, it's an epidemic...

I hate to admit it - but these blowhards lost me a long time ago charging top $$ and putting on crappy shows.

May be a top act - but if the support is crap - then the whole gigs crap.

I gave up going to most concerts when I realized I was getting about 10$ in value - for 80 bucks.

what a bunch of morons putting on these shows nowadays.

I guess if you have a ton of drugs in your system it seems like a good deal...

Wish they could/would get the act together...now back to your regular programming.

I feel the same way about direc tv.... I'm paying $55.44 a month for about $5 worth of programming. It blows.... If it wrren't for my wife, I wouldn't even own a tv.

[Teleguy61]

I feel the same way about direc tv.... I'm paying $55.44 a month for about $5 worth of programming. It blows.... If it wrren't for my wife, I wouldn't even own a tv.

Ditto.
I like the Britcoms and the Brit mysteries on PBS, and some football.
The rest is pretty much crap, and I could live without.

[briane]

feel the same way about direc tv.... I'm paying $55.44 a month for about $5 worth of programming. It blows

I canceled the TV - got one of those over-the airs...tada....90 % of the shows I watch are on it - then a few dvds like clint eastwood and james bond.....what eles is there?

oh yeah, now my vacation is paid for by the cable company - life is all about choices....