Assure me that cheap 412's will happen again

[Bear]

I've probably got a big move coming across the country in about 6 months. So of course I'm seeing lots of great deals on 412 cabs cropping up on the local Craigslist lately. A Mesa Recto 412 went for $125 today! Glad it went fast because another few hours and I couldn't have let that go -- sell the V-30's and you're getting the empty cab for free or better.

But I don't really need a 412 right now (ever?), and stupid low deals on used 412s happen often enough, right? So I'd just be paying more to move a cab I could get the equivalent of on the other side of the move, right?

Most reasonably built, ply, 1960-type cabinets should be close with the same speakers, right? Is there anything that's should be too good to pass up beyond really vintage stuff?

[Paul86]

Unless you already have a cab that you really like / works for you.
What I have found, from hard earned experience, is that speakers are a bit like guitars. The same model will give you different results. If you have a cab that really works with your rig, try sticking to it.

[selloutrr]

you are both right!

speakers are effected by... enviromental temp. humidty amount of time played the way it was played.. blah blah.. all add to the magic of tone... and speaker break in. so if it's your baby don't let her go.

with that said...

now is the time to buy!!! the economy is having trouble and you can pick up gear that a few years back wouldn't have left a guys collection if his life depended on it... well it probably does now and you can get it for pennies of what he paid for it. I've picked up several amps in the last couple months that i actually felt bad paying so little for, and let them keep the change.

4x12's the average person to person transaction (w/original factory speakers)

Marshall jcm900 160a $280,
Marshall jcm900 160b $310,
Marshall late 60's mid 70's under $1k,
Mesa Boogie 4x12 $375,
Rivera K412 $325 (IMHO awesome tone/build),
Soldano 4x12 $600,
Ampeg V4 4x12 w/ altecs $300, $150 w/out,
Sunn Model T $400,
VHT 4x12 low bottom $650,
Matchless 2x12 $650
hiwatt 4x12 w/ fanes 70's $1100
hiwatt 4x12 80's $650
Orange 4x12 ri $700
Orange 4x12 Orig $1100

these are all averages over the last 5 months and deals can be had lower all the time. what you used to pay for solid state can get you into a nice tube amp!

[wsaraceni]

i bought a really beat up 1960a jcm900 for $125 about 2 years ago. not that i needed it, but i went for it anyways.

[dartanion]

They are plentiful and cheap from my experience. I have bought 5 different 412s in the past 1.5 years and got them all pretty darn cheap.

78 1960 Lead Black $400
79 1960 Lead Fawn $450
80s 1960 Lead Black $350
79 Sound City with original pressed steel frame Fanes $325
Recent Industrial Amps oversized 412 $400 (retails for almost $1700)

There are bargains out there, you just have to look hard and jump on it when you find one. I have had many slip away that were better deals, but you have to be Johnny on the spot.

[Scumback Speakers]

Newsflash...bullshit alert! Stop posting!

Marshall late 60's under $1k...

selloutrr..

I'll try not to put too fine a point on it... but I'm calling bullshit on this one, at least for the late 60's w/original pre rola G12M and G12H30's in it. Maybe you found a mid 70's cab for under $1k, that I believe, but a late 60's Marshall cab w/original speakers? Nah...

And if you did get such a deal, email me the pics of the cab, with the cone #'s and the receipt, or the ad to go along with your purchase.

There, I said it, I don't f**king believe it. Prove me wrong, I'd love to see you do it...seriously.

And now back to the regular forum posting...

[Bear]

Jim, while speaking of 412s, what is the verdict on the bathtub 1982b? I doubt I'm gonna see one under $400 on CL, but if I do, how many people should I run off the road to make sure I get too it first?

Is it only chipboard and mdf cabs that are not worth pissing on? I always hear stories of how it was a Peavey 412 on so and so album. If there are irredeemable dogs out there, yeah, I can pass on those.

[dartanion]

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/msg/1562856785.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/msg/1555829179.html

There are others, but not much vintage stuff today. I'm sure there is in other cities.

[Scumback Speakers]

Jim, while speaking of 412s, what is the verdict on the bathtub 1982b? I doubt I'm gonna see one under $400 on CL, but if I do, how many people should I run off the road to make sure I get too it first?

Is it only chipboard and mdf cabs that are not worth pissing on? I always hear stories of how it was a Peavey 412 on so and so album. If there are irredeemable dogs out there, yeah, I can pass on those.

Bathtub 1982B cab? You've lost me on that one, sir. I have a JCM 800 bass cab that is a 4x12 that's 18" deep, 4" deeper than a standard 1982B cab, but the "bathtub" nickname I'm not familiar with.

1982 cabs usually had the G12H30's in them, not G12M's. Or at least the two from 69 I had did, with a 6" gold Marshall logo and the 100 logo in the corner.

I'm not going to publicly list a bunch of cabs that are made of MDF/particle board/etc. One reason is that some of them are very popular low dollar cabs here in SoCal, so I'm leaving that one alone! The other reason is that I can't possibly know how many there are, as there are so many cab makers.

In general, though, if a cab has been painted black inside (not talking about the baffle board), it's usually not purely for cosmetic reasons, it's to hide the wood quality or defects fixed, etc.

I've started working with a cab maker locally that makes these lower cost cabs for other amp companies (they'll remain nameless) to their spec, and in an effort to cut costs and make a profit, the owner has tried to talk me into lower grade baltic birch, generic tolex & cloth, etc., etc. Finally he wound up just telling me to buy the cloth and tolex, he'll build the cab of 3BB baltic birch and cover it with the Marshall tolex/cloth I prefer.

While I was in negotiations with him about this, I went to his shop, and he explained how he hides the defects of lower cost wood/materials/etc for those who choose to use those in their cabs. So I had a nice education in how to make a cheap cab look good, but not necessarily sound good.

More times than not, you get what you pay for, I've found.

But if you do find a 1982B cab in original condition with G12H30's in it with Pulsonic cones, I'll fight you for it...especially if it's $400-1000.

[Bear]

Wow. That sort of deal on older Marshall cabs isn't comping up around here. I might have to buy if one crops up, though.

[muchxs]

You have to keep your ear to the ground. JCM800 cabs are everywhere, so are cheap MG cabinets. I'm not worried about high dollar cabs loaded with original speakers although they do turn up. I'm just snapping a few up because they're more hassle to build than they are to buy. I always wanted one loaded with D120s with the Allmans cut in the back panel. Another gets EVMs. Why not?

[Bear]

I missed Jim's last post entirely. My terminology is probably off. I'm talking about the tall straight cabs from the late 60's, like you were playing with a repro of in your "go big or go home" thread. An extra several inches of height. I thought those were all nominally bass cabs, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong.

Frustrating thing is the ply/particleboard/mdf construction can change over time on nominally the same product. I was investigating an Ampeg v412, which is 90's or later, launched with the Lee Jackson amps. Some report that they used to be good plywood cabs, but at some point they went to cheap particleboard or the like and were being sold for peanuts at GC. The tip off for me that the one I was considering wasn't a good one is that the seller who was ditching it to make room had another ad seeking a 412.

I found a deal on a TL-806 spec Thiele cab loaded with an original EVM 12L in great shape. $130 shipped to me. Not ridiculously hard to pack up when we move, and more practical to my actual needs than a 412. So I'll just hunt on the other side of the move.

BTW, if anyone is in the Houston vicinity, there is an Ampeg V4 cab on Craigslist for $200: http://houston.craigslist.org/msg/1575827301.html Posting says needs restoration, though the seller didn't know what it needs or what shape the speakers are in when I emailed. My wife would kill me if I got it, but if anyone wants to load greenbacks to hear what Ken Fischer was tuning his Trainwrecks to, there it is.

[selloutrr]

My marshall cab's wouldn't prove anything since i've owned them for 10+ years and traded studio time for them.

Personally i've never been a marshall fan. I own a dozen or so of there products, but i've never actually taken money out of my wallet to buy one. I like a road less traveled by mainstream.. but they might be a necessary evil for any collection.

The prices I posted are based on observation of selling prices... compiled from craigslist and ebay sale prices.
i.e. EBay sells a 70's cab for $1600 you can buy that same cab on craigslist for $650.

I've seen a half dozen 60's cabs sell for under $1000 in california since august.

Sorry if you can't believe it but deals are everywhere. IMHO musical items on ebay are no longer a deal and almost as much as a corporate music store.... but with a better sellection... and no return policy.

I'll let you in on how I'm able to find awesome gear at really low prices.

This is a nationwide search engine that gives results for craigslist and ebay listings. (you cannot free search for items, only by listed brands) I had them add dumble and trainwreck, just for kicks.

http://www2.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi? ... 00&ps=&pe=

[Subjecttochange]

I would always say check craigslist.

I got an old 80's Randall cab loaded with original Celestion G12-65s for $200! The guy didn't know what he had. I lucked out big time. The cab is a little ugly- but It's well built and solid 3/4" ply.