debt free

[dartanion]

Have ever really tried to analyze what the right wing position is based solely
upon fox news programing..... you guys are scary... and your own worst enemy.
You can't validate your own positions with out an enemy, its like watching N. Korea.

The Obama administration is the first post American apartheid governance.

And you can't even rationalize within the cage of your parties politic what that means.

The republican stereo type is becoming that of a white christian racist
It doesn't look good... whats next.. immigrant round up
the last administration trashed the economy and right is using it to control public opinion and discourse.

repairing the dignity of a nation is not hope or change or progressive

there ain't no mouthwash or floss that'll get the taste of bush out your mouth.

Sound quite angry & bitter, but thanks for making my point even clearer with your random rantings. Must be the hope and change thingie inspiring you to such pleasant & "convincing" rhetoric.

Badtweed,

I suggest you take internet forum posts with a grain of salt. You cannot judge the tone of delivery by the text in front of you. Nor can you read a persons body language by the text alone. It is perfectly acceptable that folks can discuss these issues without inflaming the situation by making assumptions. If you are looking to stir the pot, use some factual info to progress the discussion.

Now go study the Federal Reserve system and you'll see what the ultra wealthy and our politicians have been doing to make the average citizen their slaves for the last century or so. It's quite alarming.

[badtweed]

Have ever really tried to analyze what the right wing position is based solely
upon fox news programing..... you guys are scary... and your own worst enemy.
You can't validate your own positions with out an enemy, its like watching N. Korea.

The Obama administration is the first post American apartheid governance.

And you can't even rationalize within the cage of your parties politic what that means.

The republican stereo type is becoming that of a white christian racist
It doesn't look good... whats next.. immigrant round up
the last administration trashed the economy and right is using it to control public opinion and discourse.

repairing the dignity of a nation is not hope or change or progressive

there ain't no mouthwash or floss that'll get the taste of bush out your mouth.

Sound quite angry & bitter, but thanks for making my point even clearer with your random rantings. Must be the hope and change thingie inspiring you to such pleasant & "convincing" rhetoric.

Badtweed,

I suggest you take internet forum posts with a grain of salt. You cannot judge the tone of delivery by the text in front of you. Nor can you read a persons body language by the text alone. It is perfectly acceptable that folks can discuss these issues without inflaming the situation by making assumptions. If you are looking to stir the pot, use some factual info to progress the discussion.

Now go study the Federal Reserve system and you'll see what the ultra wealthy and our politicians have been doing to make the average citizen their slaves for the last century or so. It's quite alarming.

Thanks but I'll pass on your condescension and suggestions. Acting like this type of thread requires "progress" is humorous though as it looks more like a wall of frustration & hate ventings.

[dartanion]

Whatever Bro. 15 posts and throwing spears

If you have nothing useful to contribute to a discussion, don't post.

[M Fowler]

Right coast-left coast, progressivist talk.

Sure glad I live in the Dakotas so I miss the effects both coasts are projecting on the nation.

[Bear]

Jeez, can't this thread get deleted already? Nothing good comes of keeping this going. And this is coming from a person who is very serious about politics, policy, and governance -- elsewhere. All this is doing is potentially eroding civility and good will and one of the more civil forums I hang at. I'd hate for any grudges to come of it or for valued contributors (which is all of you) to leave.

[Chad]

Jeez, can't this thread get deleted already? Nothing good comes of keeping this going. And this is coming from a person who is very serious about politics, policy, and governance -- elsewhere. All this is doing is potentially eroding civility and good will and one of the more civil forums I hang at. I'd hate for any grudges to come of it or for valued contributors (which is all of you) to leave.

+10000 No one ever seems to win. Remember "No body's right if every body's wrong" My opinion anyway (Which don't mean shit to most ) Chad

[mlp-mx6]

I concur as well. The thread started out very well, but headed downhill HARD.

[dartanion]

Exactly what we are trying to say. No one wins in a political battle. Put politics aside and look at the facts. No political party is right, it's all opinion. And when you boil things down to the bare essence, we all pretty much want the same things. The big problem is that the money machine doesn't want us to be banded together as a united front, they want us fractured into sects that fight each other. It's not that hard to understand. Let the 2 parties feast on each other while the illuminati collect their cash. Keep the common man distracted from reality. Why let politicians and con men dictate how you behave and why let them tell you how to think? Think for yourself man!

[drhulsey]

... the money machine doesn't want us to be banded together as a united front...

Dartanion's right. The Fed is a big part of the problem.
Humanitarianism is great when you can afford it and when it doesn't remove people's drive to succeed. I can't donate more money to Haiti than I have. I don't have a printing press to create more, and I don't know any bankers in China. The amount of money it will take in the future to continue our "humanitarianism" will be more than the U.S will be able to make. All it takes is simple accounting to realize that if you can't create more income, you have to cut spending. Taxing U.S. citizens at 90% won't be enough to retire this debt. What are you going to do for humanitarianism when the money runs out?
Successful African American business men and women will tell you that government welfare programs have destroyed the black family and trapped generations in poverty. That's their assessment of the conditions!
There has to be a balance! We certainly have to care for those who truly cannot provide for themselves, but providing for people who just won't do for themselves creates dependency. Preventing a person's own motivation for succeeding is just another form of slavery.
Simply put, when the country goes bankrupt, you'll be lucky to be able to take care of yourself and your family. You won't even be able to help those who really need it!
Someone please explain how you continue this level of governmental spending without sooner or later having to settle the tab.
I submit this with all due respect to differing opinions.

[Andy Le Blanc]

I saw a point of interest a economist article, that "rich developed countries"
Have dug themselves their own graves, a combination of outsourcing industry (not making product),
and at the same time running up personal debt
on outsourced product. We've created a system based on growth dividends.
Then out sourced the growth. Deficit spending is an economic tool.
nothing wrong with the deficit, the real issue is economic growth.
The deficit becomes unhealthy with slow growth.
The government has hidden the issue with low interest rates and fiscal policy
that has encouraged bubble markets, and a more complex debt industry,
because they generate wealth, but they aren't real growth.

I remember back in the day dow jones broke 8000 or 9000, early regan admin. maybe,
the expectations for the creation of wealth made people giddy. But one old guy came on the news
and said the opposite, the realistic expectation for market stability and long term growth were at total odds with market perceptions.
And its come true.... true base value between 9500 and 10000 after a
dangerous readjustment.

Consolidation of market production has destroyed diversity, what would you rather have?

A hundred small local and regional instrument makers and small distributors that come and go...

Or one or two international umbrella distributors, like fender has become,
that owns the product name license manufacturing over seas at a fixed monetary exchange rate.

The same question effects every aspect of our consumer society.

Jobs means there's growth, a deficit is ok with growth, wheres the jobs?

[dartanion]

This is all for naught when our currency is unconstitutional, meaning not of gold or silver coin, and that the Federal Reserve is neither a Federal Agency, nor is their a reserve of money stored there. Its a cartel made up of private banks that control our currency. They loan money they print for the gov't to the gov't at interest, meaning each dollar created is tagged with debt instantaneously. Debt free currency worked fine before the Fed, we need to go back to a debt free currency right away.

[drhulsey]

... We've created a system based on growth dividends. Then out sourced the growth...

I agree. So since we don't have much chance of producing competitive goods for sale overseas, our only choice is to cut spending.

This is all for naught..

You're right. All these decisions have been made where we don't have access. The Constitution has been left in the dust. The authors of that document wouldn't be able to recognize the U.S. now compared to the one they designed. The country could have progressed based on the original design if greedy people hadn't lusted to widen their powers, AND if We the People had gotten rid of them when they did!

[Andy Le Blanc]

Heard a bit tonight about Ayn Rand and Greenspan, deregulation and the
free market.

I've watched the local economy here whither over a time span that strangely
mirrors Greenspan's career, since his appointment during the ford administration.

I think your right about the Fed, is purposeful inaction based on philosophical belief a crime?
It's not a free market if public funds are used bail out the private investment losses.
If its not really a free market, its might not really be a constitutional democracy.
It might be time to chew your congress man a new ass. Ban lobbyist so we
at least has a clearer illusion of freedom.

[mlp-mx6]

...it might not really be a constitutional democracy.

It never was a democracy of any kind, nor was it ever intended as such. The U.S.A. is a republic. This is a *very* important distinction.

[dartanion]

...it might not really be a constitutional democracy.

It never was a democracy of any kind, nor was it ever intended as such. The U.S.A. is a republic. This is a *very* important distinction.

Democratic Republic to be more specific. But yes, not a true democracy at all.

It's time for the Cartel that the Federal Reserve is to go, and then we need to move to a non "Fiat Money" currency system.