Math and calculators

[Cliff Schecht]

Who here would consider themselves good at math? This is an extremely broad question yes, but after 5 years of math classes and a minor in math I still feel that my basic math skills are very lacking. Throw some differential equations or fields problems in front of my with a TI-89 and I'm peachy, but ask me to do long division by hand and I'll spend all day on the problem reading through google trying to remember.

I've always been the guy that relied on calculators to get me through everything, at least throughout high school and my undergrad college years. Over the past year or so, I've really made an effort to drop the graphing calculators completely and derive everything by hand and with a simple scientific. I've noticed a huge improvement in my basic math skills but every once in a while I have to google a formula or ask a question that other EE's would scoff at you for not remembering.

A good example is logarithms. I just recently re-figured out how to convert from dB to linear on the fly with a simple scientific. Kinda of embarrassing as I work with these units daily, I was just used to solving for x in my 89. Just goes to show how much of a hindrance some modern technology can be I guess..

[jaysg]

Do you have a CRC Math handbook? Mine's full of tables in case your slide rule is at large. I used to be good at math, but having not gone to grad school, I can see that some of those guys learned what the math was for...not just how to do it. I've programmed 3 x 3 matricie solutions for work. Who knew it was useful?

[Aurora]

Somehow CLiff, I think I'm a bit older than you... ( I'm 57)....
I used to be a math freak in my younger days... math, physics and chemistry always had a much greater appeal than history and all the other stuff, - no wonder I ended up in engineering......
I'm old enough to have grown up without calculators, - they appeared in my old college back in 73 at first - we had a lab set of HP45s, at the then totally ridiculous price of 1000$ each! Then during very late 73, early 74 , the first common calculators appeared. We all bought TI-53s at around 100$ each in the autumn of 74......
I also think that there was a lot more of everyday calculus back in the 60s and 70s than there is today - there's so much more taken for granted today - even in the shops back then, most stuff was sold by weight or volume, - not so much prepacked stuff. This forced you to use your head a lot more- head calculations are just practice, and I sometimes cringe at the youngsters in the shops who cannot even calculate your change without the "thing".....

AS for the understanding of math, even if I loved math, it wasn't really until I started engineering studies that I found a real use for math - signal theory, transfer equations, the much dreaded telegraph equation....
there's some real math!
But math is something to that need to be practiced all the time, to keep it alive. I have no chance doing diff equations on paper today.....

[David Root]

I went straight from log tables to calculators, missed slide rules altogether. That was because I went to school in England where at the time they were too cheap to use slide rules.....don't ask, I remember when dirt was rocks.

For the last 30 years I have used a HP32S, RPN calculator. Can't use anything else and I hope I never lose it because you can't buy them under $100 on E-Bay.

[Structo]

I remember slide rules.

The few calculators that were around were treated like a fad by the instructors.

I remember working on a slide rule answer for about three minutes and then reported the answer to the teacher, you would say it's about 3.423

With the calculator you would say, the answer is 3.42359712398

The first four function calculator I bought 1973 (or I should say my mom bought) was a Texas Instruments for $80 and had red LED numerals.

[Cliff Schecht]

I keep meaning to learn how to use the slide rule sitting at my desk. My dad taught me before I knew what log meant..

TBH, I will use a calculator if it's quicker than hand calculations. As long as I understand what I'm solving for with the calculator I'm fine. It's when I don't understand what the magic box is doing that I get a bit frustrated that I didn't take math more serious when I was younger. Maybe I'm just feeling bad about turning 24 soon..

[Structo]

24?!

I wish, enjoy your young years to the fullest!

Don't put off doing what you want.

Before you know it you will be middle aged.

As you get older the years go faster and faster!

[ChrisM]

I'm in second year EE, just getting into Laplace Transforms now Fun stuff!

[Bob S]

I remember my first - TI with + - * / and %. Cost a fortune back then.
Could still use a slide rule if pushed...
Listen to Tom - old sneaks up on you - fast.

[Cliff Schecht]

I'm in second year EE, just getting into Laplace Transforms now Fun stuff!

*points and laughs*

You'll see Laplace transforms about a million times from here on out, pretty much in any EE class you take. Pay attention to this stuff and the Fourier series/transform stuff when it comes up as well. At first it just looks like a bunch of math but it eventually becomes graphical and turns into learning about Fourier transforms, harmonic theory, phase and group delay, etc .. After a bit of practice you'll start to connect things you see on the oscilloscope with the Fourier series and can picture in your head what the harmonics look like. To be able to extract this information on the fly just from intuition will put you very far ahead. Fully understanding all of this makes design/simulation/testing/troubleshooting a helluva lot easier and more intuitive in just about every instance (along with your knowledge of practical devices, noise theory and feedback ).

[Ken Moon]

I remember working on a slide rule answer for about three minutes and then reported the answer to the teacher, you would say it's about 3.423

With the calculator you would say, the answer is 3.42359712398

Only an engineer would ever say "about 3.423"

At work, one of my favorite "funny engineer things" I like to show the new guys is a test we run all the time, where the display says:

THIS TEST WILL TAKE APPROXIMATELY 3.19 MINUTES

It's a good example of the engineering mindset (I'm an EE too, so I can say it), and how differently engineers think than normal humans

[Ken Moon]

Back to the original subject, does anyone here use MathCad?

We had it at work about 15 years ago, and I really miss it.

I use Google to find formulas, even though I still have most of my EE texts, because it's faster and often more to the point I'm looking for. Don't see anything wrong with using tools...

[JamesHealey]

My music degree didn't have much math. And i was terrible at school. The calculator is my best friend. I can't even do my three times table.

[Structo]

When I was in school the theory instructor told us that he didn't expect us to remember all the formulas and math.

Sure there are a few that you will use all the time such as Ohm's law, but he said that unless you are one of the very few with photographic memory, you won't remember them so the text book is your friend.

[vibratoking]

I use Mathcad and Matlab quite often. Both are very good tools in different ways. Just different tools in the toolbox. The right tool for the right job.

I find remembering formulas to be helpful in several ways. It makes things a lot faster. I can get on with the real problem and not waste time digging up the formula that I need to solve the problem. Formulas also give you, or me, insight into how things really work. Formulas often provide me with the link to a real understanding of how things work, not just a lifeless equation that numbers should be plugged into. Of course, this will only happen for you if you make sure to evaluate the equations and derive the real meaning.

Yes, I am an engineer.