Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

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skyboltone
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by skyboltone »

So, Talbany; I read that amp review twice. There is no reference whatsoever to "Rikki" or to Steely Dan. The article Martin linked is an interview with Donald Fagen and Walter Becker. So it's your contention that Donald is whispering sweet nothings like "I thought our little wild thing, had just begun" and "You must have scared yourself, you turn and run" to Rick Derringer? The song was recorded in 1973 and featured Skunk Baxter on the guitar solo. It's from the album "Pretzel Logic" which was recorded before the series of studio albums had begun and while SD was just another band from Jersey and still touring. Where does Derringer fit into this time period? Is there history there somewhere that you can point to?

<<<<Well, now I've gone and checked. Derringer did play slide on a couple of songs from that era. I still don't think Fagen's got his tongue in Derringer's ear though.>>>>
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by talbany »

martin manning wrote: I've heard the one about the joint for years. Fagan isn't telling, though... That'd kill the mistique.
That's my thought's as well and why they are not spilling the beans on that as the referencing the word "number" to indicate a joint (used in the 70's). If you put it into context it would make some sense then as to one mailing a joint which was done frequent back in those days as the mail was not screened for drugs (I remember friends getting drugs in the mail regularly in those days)..Honestly I can only say what Rick told us where that the title was arrived at after Fagan said it to him but that the lyrics were something of a collection of his memories and not any one thing or person ...Rick did play on quite a few of those sessions but like many of other players only several made it to master..I think he is credited to some producing as well as playing but we would need to see the liner notes to verify this..Rick was a well known producer in those days as well as a player..
Honestly if you don't believe me that is fine!....As I am just telling you what was past on to me in a casual conversation...Believe what you will!!..If I get time and hear more from Rick or have more proof I'll pass it along..


Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
talbany
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by talbany »

So, Talbany; I read that amp review twice. There is no reference whatsoever to "Rikki" or to Steely Dan.
:lol: ...The link to his amp on the VVT site has nothing to do with this discussion..Merely to point out that my company at the time worked with Rick Derringer for quite a while.. That's all
Well, now I've gone and checked. Derringer did play slide on a couple of songs from that era. I still don't think Fagen's got his tongue in Derringer's ear though.>>>>
Let us know when you talk to Derringer or Fagen about the tongue thing..:roll:

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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skyboltone
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by skyboltone »

talbany wrote:
So, Talbany; I read that amp review twice. There is no reference whatsoever to "Rikki" or to Steely Dan.
:lol: ...The link to his amp on the VVT site has nothing to do with this discussion..Merely to point out that my company at the time worked with Rick Derringer for quite a while.. That's all
Well, now I've gone and checked. Derringer did play slide on a couple of songs from that era. I still don't think Fagen's got his tongue in Derringer's ear though.>>>>
Let us know when you talk to Derringer or Fagen about the tongue thing..:roll:

Tony
Maybe Carly Simon can tell us? :idea:
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by talbany »

Well this was relatively easy to find..

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikki_Don' ... hat_Number
The inspiration for the text is said to have been Rikki Ducornet, as Donald Fagen had gone to school with. She was both married and pregnant when she and Fagen met, but she says Fagen gave her his phone number during a student party at Bard College . Fagen has neither confirmed nor denied this. Rick Derringer , who played guitar on a number of Steely Dan songs, has said that he thinks the song is about him.
So who do you believe a pregnant married College girl he met that thinks a top 40 song was about her? or a very famous studio musician who was on the sessions...Only your hairdresser and Carly Simon knows for sure.. :lol:

Tony
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martin manning
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by martin manning »

English version without the Rick D reference: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikki_Don' ... hat_Number>

In the EW interview it says that Ducornet was the wife of a Bard College faculty member at the time. This is really not worth arguing about IMO- we're not going to solve it here.
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by skyboltone »

Being an old lit critic and philosophy of art major I say look at the internal evidence. Forget about what anybody SAYS listen to the song. It just doesn't sound like a "please be my guitar man mister" Do Rick D's friends call him Rikki in private? Really, I'm just asking.

The other point you made though Talbany is that the song could make sense on several levels. Right? In the long interview of Fagen and Becker that I linked, Becker makes reference to "obscure" lyrics. I'll meet you in the middle. Fagen wanted into Rikki's pants and Becker wanted Rick to play on all the albums....until they found Larry Carlton anyway.
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talbany
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by talbany »

martin manning wrote:English version without the Rick D reference: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikki_Don' ... hat_Number>

In the EW interview it says that Ducornet was the wife of a Bard College faculty member at the time. This is really not worth arguing about IMO- we're not going to solve it here.
Who is arguing?.. It's garage talk and we're talking 8) I don't think Fagen wants it solved either
The other point you made though Talbany is that the song could make sense on several levels. Right? In the long interview of Fagen and Becker that I linked, Becker makes reference to "obscure" lyrics. I'll meet you in the middle. Fagen wanted into Rikki's pants and Becker wanted Rick to play on all the albums....until they found Larry Carlton anyway.
Kind of yeah!
Personally I think Fagen was looking for the hook or possibly a missing line in the phrase..He could have said it to Darringer and it somehow resonated with him..Perhaps later on he changed the name Ricky to a girls Rikki since Ricky don't lose that number would be a bit weird coming from a guy if people take it literally or the wrong way..IMO

Anyway that's what I think happend...:wink:

As far as the Carlton thing goes.. Generally if you don't know what you want for a guitar sound?..You bring several in let them duke it out and pick the one you want to go to the master..All these players were at the top of their game then so it most likely came down to which take was the most complex piece that fit the part, since they wanted to be known for being a difficult group to copy and considered more jazz oriented than straight rock as part of their image and sound?..Derringer was known for being more of a Rock guy than a Jazzer at the time..Carlton being the better fit for that style,although I would have liked to hear Rick's style on a few more of those Dan tunes to loosen them up a bit..

My take anyway..

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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martin manning
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by martin manning »

...
Last edited by martin manning on Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by martin manning »

talbany wrote:I don't think Fagen wants it solved either
skybolyone wrote:The other point you made though Talbany is that the song could make sense on several levels. Right?
Yes and yes! A lot of successful song lyrics are vague enough that a great many people can find a meaning or even a personal connection in them. The creative process is often a generalization based on a specific event, where the writer may choose to add references to other events to broaden the possibilities, further obscure the specific event, and/or give the listener more to work with. These guys are very good at this, and probably love to see people puzzling over their lyrics. Revealing the specific event collapses the number of possible interpretations and spoils the game for everyone.
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by TNblueshawk »

I get why Steely might put some people off. If we didn't know how neurotic they were would we really know it in the music? I submit only some musicians would. The other 99.5% of the population does not. I still feel however if anyone can pull it off they could and did.

I put on an Allman Bros DVD a few years back. A girl commented that Derek Trucks doesn't look like he cares or is having fun. I assured her that short of banging his wife there is nothing he would rather be doing that playing that guitar. No he doesn't have his tounge out with his crotch in my face but he is having fun. I don't know if she beleived me or not :lol:

It strikes me that all of classical music is only what SD did in terms of following a chart, no? But there are some damn good classical musicians. I mean let one of those players try to improvise and see how fast they are escorted out.

As far as OC goes, all of the stuff I've heard from him was like Miles Bitches Brew sessions. I love Miles Davis and have a lot of his stuff however I also have Bitches Brew and have only put it on once if you know what I mean. I love jazz fusion and jam bands and I don't mind "getting out there" but man sometimes it is just too much. Coltrane would lose his mind too along with many others like that. That's great and maybe they created something new but I sure don't have to like it even though I love most of what they did.

So I guess I would have to explore what RP says to see a different side of OC which I am certainly not opposed to.
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by TNblueshawk »

Double post
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NickC
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by NickC »

As soon as we're done analyzing, and figuring out, Steely Dan lyrics ..... can we move on to Yes lyrics?
South Side of the Sky wrote: The sunshine in mountains sometimes lost
The river can disregard the cost
And melt in the sky, warmth when you die
Were we ever warmer on that day, a million miles away
We seemed from all of eternity


:wink:
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

Post by TNblueshawk »

From there we can go to some Pink Floyd lyrics pre Meddle that is.
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Re: Steely Dan, it's time for a talk.

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TNblueshawk wrote:From there we can go to some Pink Floyd lyrics pre Meddle that is.
Yes! The vocalizations in Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict are fascinatingly obscure.
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