car repairs and cost of parts

[Phil_S]

My Honda Civic check engine light came on, so I took it to the dealer for diagnosis. For no charge (damn nice of them) they told me the code indicates the front fuel/oxygen sensor is not functioning properly. The light went off before I delivered it, so they ran a test, 3000 RPM for 3 minutes. No light. They said if the engine light returns to come back to replace the sensor.

Two days later the light is on. Another two days, it goes off again. I get a bad feeling it needs attention. I start to get the picture, this is going to cost me. Our friend Google tells me the part retails for about $360! I figure, no one is going to discount that item to me and with labor, it is going to be about $450. Mind you, this is a spark plug sized thing that goes into the exhaust pipe just below the exhaust manifold, close to the engine.

Further diligence with Google turns up information that Honda sources this part from both NGK and Denso, so either is considered OEM. The part can be purchased for $230-ish at many places (without the Honda logo on it.) With some patience, I finally located a source for about $120... and then got very lucky and found it for $90 from an Amazon seller. I had to buy a special socket wrench (this is something you don't want to strip). The socket arrived yesterday and the sensor is due here today.

I anticipate some effort to remove the old O2 sensor. It is in a tight spot. Have to jack the front up and put it on jack stands (which I've had in a box for the past 30 years.) It is probably rusted in place. I'll need penetrating oil (I assume Liquid Wrench is OK) and a pipe to put on the socket wrench handle. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes me 2 hours for a 15 minute job.

I don't mind when a business gets a mark up. They need that to stay in business. But the cost of this part....well, whoever sold it to me gets it for less than $90 and it is the exact same part Honda will sell me for over $360. I know the price smacks of too good to be true, but let's just assume it isn't for now. I just don't understand what must be a 500% markup.

I'm going to do my best to save about $350 on this job. If it doesn't work out, I know that I am going to have to pay the piper, getting the repair shop to fix my mess before they can replace the sensor.

Thanks for giving me a place to vent.

[eniam rognab]

get into the instrument cluster and disconnect the "engine problem" light

easy fix!

i know about as much about cars as i do women, i am divorcing, so dont take any of my advice

[ToneMerc]

There are cheap far east OS clones out there. I assume it is the upstream OS. I would run it for a few minutes and then the hit base with oil, I like Kroil. It should come right out and if the new OS does not have anti-seize grease on the threads, install a little.

TM

[Teleguy61]

get into the instrument cluster and disconnect the "engine problem" light

easy fix!

i know about as much about cars as i do women, i am divorcing, so dont take any of my advice

Except that you can't get an inspection sticker with check engine light on.

[John_P_WI]

Phil, Hondas are generally fairly well thought out, engineered and easy to repair. My experience with them has proved that the car stealerships charge 3 to 4 times the cost of the part for a repair + all of the additional environmental and shop fee charges. In other words, a $250 true cost part to them ends up being a $750 to $1000 repair with labor and adders.

i know about as much about cars as i do women, i am divorcing, so dont take any of my advice

Don't worry about it bangor, some of know more, some know less, and some of us do it more than once...

[Leo_Gnardo]

Good hunting!! I'm used to seeing about $85 for OS's so your search paid off. Remember the good old days when you could find a set of contact points for your Jaguar's distro - funny also $85 back in the 70's. Pull the Jag sticker off the box and there's your Delco $3.75 points. Hmmm....

[jestaudio]

Had a very similar problem on a Citroen I owned, old mechanics trick on this side of the pond is to remove it, clean it with brake cleaner, dry off and refit, does,nt work all the time but it got me through to p/x ing the damn piece of crap for something more reliable lol

[Phil_S]

Ha! Didn't expect this level of activity! So, this shipped USPS 1st class from the left coast on Tuesday and arrived here on the right coast a few minutes ago. It must have hitched a ride on an airplane.

Bangor: I think I'll steer clear of the instrument cluster wiring. Thanks, but that's a dark place in a car and you've got to get into an undignified upside down position.

TM: Yes, it is the upstream. There is no obvious part or mfg identification on it. I am going to assume it is a far east POS clone, but probably adequate for the purpose. I may not have a trained eye, but to me it seems to be a nicely made part, no obvious lack of quality on the outside. Thanks also for the pointer on the anti-seize grease. I did my utube homework before buying and learned about the anti-seize compound. Several videos say to add more, so I bought a $4 tube of it. Right now, the light is off. I'm thinking I will wait a while and maybe even try to return it if the light stays off. Who knows?

And thanks for the pointer on Kroil, which lead me to look on the 'net where I see the Kroil vs. PB Blaster discussion, LOL. It seems both are considerably more advanced than Liquid Wrench. You know, amateurs buy one small container and it lasts a lifetime. My can of Liquid Wrench must be 25 years old.

John: Yes, I like Honda. We have had quite a few of them, at least 6 that I can recall. There aren't the most luxurious, but have found them very dependable. I had a 1990 Accord (new) for 18 years. I like dependable, and I've got a reliable place to fix them. They managed to tuck in this sensor into a tight spot. I'll see when I get under if there really is room for the wrench without removing the black plastic splash shield, which I'm sure will be a PITA. BTW, I had one of these done on another car in 2009 and it was $330 parts and labor. Price will have gone up, so I am not far off with my guesstimate.

jestaudio: I live in Maryland. Our state has mandatory emissions testing. They plug into the on-board computer looking for codes like this one from the engine light. We are required to pay a fee for this inspection, too. If it keeps up, I will have no choice. I am doubtful that cleaning the old one will do. Besides, if I am going to remove the old one, the required effort makes it work finishing the job and not reinstalling the old one, just to do it again later. Besides, I expect the old one will get boogered up when I remove it, leaving me no choice.

Thanks, everyone, for all the encouragement!

[Structo]

You can save a hell of a lot of money by doing repairs yourself.

Hell, if you can build a tube amp, you should be able to fix a car.

[NickC]

You can save a hell of a lot of money by doing repairs yourself.

Hell, if you can build a tube amp, you should be able to fix a car.

I used an optical tremolo bug to repair the turn indicators, and now I'm hearing ticking through the radio. How do I fix that?

[Structo]

Well, it's conspiracy and they want to charge you as much as they can.

Ever notice that they explain just enough to be vague?
And they need to repair it to see if that was the problem?

Get yourself a quality Owners Shop Manual and do your own troubleshooting read up on it.

[johnnyreece]

You can save a hell of a lot of money by doing repairs yourself.

Hell, if you can build a tube amp, you should be able to fix a car.

I used an optical tremolo bug to repair the turn indicators, and now I'm hearing ticking through the radio. How do I fix that?

Did you rebias?

[Phil_S]

I used an optical tremolo bug to repair the turn indicators, and now I'm hearing ticking through the radio. How do I fix that?

You gotta stop. I nearly choked when I read this. It's that funny.

[gui_tarzan]

You can save a hell of a lot of money by doing repairs yourself.

Hell, if you can build a tube amp, you should be able to fix a car.

I used an optical tremolo bug to repair the turn indicators, and now I'm hearing ticking through the radio. How do I fix that?

LOL!!! Yes I did!

I'm fortunate in that I can fix almost anything on our cars and have been doing so since I was a teenager. The only thing I can't/won't do is an automatic transmission.

The O2 sensor for our Malibu was around $50 and the socket was under $20. I had to use heat on it to get it out but it was easy to get to.

[Phil_S]

You can save a hell of a lot of money by doing repairs yourself.

Hell, if you can build a tube amp, you should be able to fix a car.

I rebuilt a truck motor with a friend in 1974 (a 1951 Ford F1) and it was really fun to do. We had an original shop manual. It wasn't for an amateur. It said things like, "remove the carburetor, then remove the intake manifold...). I don't believe there was a single "how to" instruction in the whole book but there were a few good pictures and diagrams. It did, and this was key, give the correct order for taking apart the motor, without which we would have been really lost. Since that time, I lost all fear when it comes to fixing things. It is just that I'm am now past 60 and am not nearly as strong or flexible as I used to be and lying on the ground is no longer my idea of a good time. This particular repair is expensive enough to motivate me. Ordinarily, I don't bother any more.