how to hack a car

[eniam rognab]

scary possibly take control of your lights/brakes/gas-lock/unlock hacking a modern car remotely, into the CANBUS... makes me want to buy an older car!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jstaBe ... XRG7nz6PpQ

[Structo]

Isn't modern electronics a wonderful thing?

[LeftyStrat]

A little bit sensational. For some background, I worked for Cygnus Solutions in the nineties. They developed eCos, a real time embedded operating system. It was used by Toyota in their braking systems.

You'd need to install something in the car, because currently CAN bus doesn't directly connect to the internet.

Secondly, there are companies like Diablo Sport that make devices to mod things like fuel mixture for performance or economy. I worked with a guy that used to work for Diablo Sport, and he talked about the issues surrounding reverse engineering each car companies CAN bus communications.

The car companies started fighting back. Chrysler started encrypting much of the communications, and Diablo Sport took a long time to reverse engineer it, eventually they did, but it took them three years.

So yeah, once I broke encryption (different for each car manufacturer), built an OBD-II device with long range communications (doable with diy parts), got inside your car to plug it into the OBD-II port (usually somewhere under the steering wheel, you know if you live in a state that tests emissions), then yes, I could have you doing donuts and handbrake turns in the parking lot of your grocery store.

Of course, it wouldn't be any fun unless I also installed a wireless camera to upload to youtube your reactions.

[LeftyStrat]

But I should add that it is true that everything is on the CAN bus. Interior lights on and off, doors locked/unlocked, fuel mixture, reading of every sensor, whether your gas cap is on (pressure in the gas tank), even the on/off those heated leather seats. I don't believe steering is integrated, but the gas pedal and brake pedal definitely are.

The very best programmers tend to work for startups, because those have the chance to make them millionaires. I didn't get rich working at Cygnus Solutions, but after two years working there, I received a extra years salary when they were bought by Red Hat. Had I been there four years, I would never had to work again.

So the very best programmers are not working for car companies or the government. Having worked for Michelin prior to the dot com boom, most large corporations view programmers as a barely necessary evil.

In the break room at Cygnus, spray painted in six foot high letters, was the phrase "Hackers Rule the World."

[eniam rognab]

In the break room at Cygnus, spray painted in six foot high letters, was the phrase "Hackers Rule the World."

hahaha, thats basically the point of these "preaked out" series on motherboard, which is a youtube channel by the same people that make all the "vice" documentaries. all the stuff is cutting edge, and you're right, definitely exaggerated. but people are still unaware of these embedded systems and how much they actually control.

i'll take your word for it, you obviously have more experience than me, i just thought this would be interesting for like-minded folks.

we are all hacks/hackers though arent we? the world is built on innovation, this doc just touches on all that.

thanks lefty for all your contribution! learned a few things

[wicker]

I remember having classes about different interfaces at my University - RS232/485/422, LIN, CAN, GPIB. It was a real fun to play with that - there was a full cockpit and you could turn on/off lights, horn, locks. Even recently I thought about buying OBD-II connector and try to hack my car, what stops are costs of servicing if something goes wrong

[eniam rognab]

i took 2 microprocessor classes for my certificates (soon to be degrees)

we used arduinos and parallax uprocessors to do robot builds and such. i was TOTALLY lost at the programming. i teamed up with a great programmer and i did all the circuitry and building and he worked on the whole code. we had a challenge course for the robots, timed of course for bragging, we lost or should i say, didnt win, hahahaha

so yeah, im not much for programming, LOVED my semiconductor class though! might pay to take that one again after i get my degrees, screw the tests and just refresh, that class was great!

i remember i was SO happy when i could turn an LED on or off with a computer keystroke. that excitement didnt last long apparently

[LeftyStrat]

I don't get to do too much embedded these days, but I always enjoyed it. However, what's called embedded these days is luxurious compared to the old days. I've been playing around with one of these:

http://wandboard.org/

But it can run Linux and do HDMI video, so it's hard to call it embedded.

[eniam rognab]

mr wizard! must be magical that looks fun, i know peeps that are all into "raspberry-pi"s lil micro computers.

i was joking around at work, the younger of the two older engineers, Thanh, was complaining about how his son wanted a new computer. i suggested he buy him a raspberry-pi and figure it out himself and he gave me the best look ever!! the older engineer Sayed had overheard our discussion and came to clarify to Thanh what i meant (little language barrier there), WITH samples, he uses them all day! he programs the charging units we work on, and interfaces through these devices, pretty cool!

[LeftyStrat]

I remember having classes about different interfaces at my University - RS232/485/422, LIN, CAN, GPIB. It was a real fun to play with that - there was a full cockpit and you could turn on/off lights, horn, locks. Even recently I thought about buying OBD-II connector and try to hack my car, what stops are costs of servicing if something goes wrong

I think that is why the car companies are trying to encrypt a lot of the communications. But those interfaces are still a lot of fun if all you are doing is reading values. Like finding out exactly is wrong when that damn "Check Engine" light is on. Sometimes it can be fixed pretty cheaply, like when your gas cap is bad.

[wicker]

Although I've never been into embedded I'm thinking about diving into it a little bit. I always preferred analog circuit but recently I turned into programming a lot, I work at microelectronics design company and I mostly write some scripts for verification and maintenance purpose - nothing big and industrial but can give a lot of satisfaction when you hear "thanks for that program, it did help me a lot" from a teammate.

[jestaudio]

I have a tool called the Solus by snap on, plus various other dealer level diagnostics, amazing what you can actually do, good job I,m honest

[cbass]

I've been wantin to get settup to burn chips for my truck computer.MMy technology skills stopped in the 80's though
I've thought about getting a new truck but shit $40,000 gets you startetd.Think I'll just keep the ol 88 I put a new engine in it a while back for less than what one new truck payment is.

[Leka]

I worked as a sw engineer and made embedded software for Nokia mobile phones for twelve years...
Comparing to that these arduinos and strawberries are piece of cake to program.

I got older much quicker than other people around me when I made symbian camera driver software....
Now that symbian is dead, the recovery has slowly started. Don't know yet how long it will take.

I prefer not to have _any_ software in my car.

[eniam rognab]

I prefer not to have _any_ software in my car.

+1, more shit to break and $Fix

i just gave up on programming.... personal thing, just like working with physical things i guess... im sure if i ever *need to or want to i could make my arduino do whatever its capable of, all the info is out there for the absorption, but my membranes aren't polarized toward that phase....

plus i am american and learning programming language, ANY other language just isnt an option we know they exist but who does that? i keed i keed

i know its really not that hard but im just not motivated, wasnt aware how embedded the new cars are now though!! ill be looking for a old truck once this settlement of mine starts going on,

any suggestions? i had a '00 nissan king cab, LOVED IT. sold it cuz we were hard up and i could take transit to school for free. gonna be looking for a reliable/workable 4 banger, manual transmission required.