Purpose of this forum

Non-tube amp discussion to discuss music, girls, life, etc.

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pompeiisneaks
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Purpose of this forum

Post by pompeiisneaks »

Hey all. I've seen a bit of commentary from a few members recently that the goal of this forum in the past was focused around well established builders discussing the art of building amps, and lately it has turned it's focus more on helping new amp builders learn the basics.

I for one don't see any problem with that, as everyone starts somewhere. I myself have only had a bit over a year in amp builds, and I have a total of 7 builds under my belt. I am no veteran, and feel like I have tons to learn myself.

On the other hand, if it seems that most people that regularly frequent this forum think it's not for teaching new builders, we could likely post a sticky on the main section that tells people to look to other forums like el34world.com etc, that are great for new builders.

Just wanted to bring this discussion thread to a separate place instead of invading someone elses.

~Phil
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by JazzGuitarGimp »

Personally, I like to help others when and where I can. But I suppose I've never been a big fan of the "good old boys club" mentality. It seems to me that as new builders progress in their path toward building their ultimate amp, it serves to only make this community bigger, stronger and more interesting. I agree with Mark that it would be nice to see more build threads than we are currently seeing, and I can only speak for myself when I say that life just plain gets in the way sometimes. I've had a build thread going for a couple of years now, and as much as I want to get back to it and finish it, I am finding that there is so much stuff to get done on my plate these days - and that certainly includes projects which _must_ come before the sinful, self-serving indulgence of building my amp, that I am loathe to find time to work on my amp. And I am noticing as I get older, that I actually have less free time than I ever have had in the past.

My vote is, let's welcome newbies with open arms and who knows, maybe some of them will be teaching us new tricks in time.

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Phil_S
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by Phil_S »

I'm an amateur builder. I stopped counting at a dozen. I'm not up to 20. Each is different. I came here to build a TW Express variant. That was a challenging build and I was grateful for the help. There are many good reasons why I return regularly. At the top of the list is the general civility of the people here, along with willingness to give honest, competent information and help where requested. I like the idea that it's a big tent and there's room for everyone. I hope when I participate that I contribute at least a little bit.

I think it's worth noting how much TAG suffered before the recent software platform was upgrade. Community participation declined. My perception was that I didn't need to take off my socks to count up the regulars. I believe we are now in a rebuilding stage. Today's beginners will be tomorrow's experienced builders. I suggest we let this take it's own path. Remember, anyone who participates in a thread does it voluntarily. As long as it's on-topic, I don't see the harm and it's an opportunity for something good to happen.

I've seen instances where a beginner has been redirected by some of the regulars, and done nicely. I am concerned at how a blanket redirect might be seen. I say, let's capture members and keep them. Let's continue to handle the redirects on a case by case basis. I suppose a neutral sticky on other forums might be OK, but we likely can't or won't know how those other forums will react to such a posting.
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by Scumback Speakers »

I'm all for helping new builders out. I had help 9-10 years ago when I first started, from here and the Metro Forum, too. It's a case of realizing you want to learn from others who already know, and not being a complete ass about it when you ask for help online. And Phil_S is right, today's newbies will be tomorrow's "Hey, here's how you handle that!" guys that answer back.
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by xtian »

I started from ZERO tube amp knowledge seven years ago, and I started by peppering this forum with the most basic questions possible ("whoa, some caps have POLARITY?!?").

Since then I have built 30-40 amps from scratch, and repaired almost 300.

Like Phil ("old" Phil), I still consider myself a rank amateur. But I know enough to help the NEW newbies, and, 4600+ posts later, I'm still happy to do that.

Remember recent years while Google had TAG flagged with the warning, and posts here waned to just a few per day? That was sad. Now were growing again and I'm very happy to see it, especially with Phil ("new" Phil) here to manage the software and "customer service" :)

So, let it roll, newbies and all.
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by pompeiisneaks »

glad to hear I'm not the only person with this kind of ideas about it. I'm still open to any opinions though, I want to be sure I'm getting everyone's input.

At my age it's weird being called the 'new' Phil, but very apropos :)

~Phil
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by martin manning »

pompeiisneaks wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 8:00 pm Hey all. I've seen a bit of commentary from a few members recently that the goal of this forum in the past was focused around well established builders discussing the art of building amps, and lately it has turned it's focus more on helping new amp builders learn the basics.
I don't see why it can't be both. Answering questions makes me think, often pushes me into doing some research and learning something new, and gives me ideas for better solutions and future builds. The general level of civility of this place is a bonus too.
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by sonicmojo »

I was warned by a friend before I started posting here about 7 years ago that TAG can be abrasive to newcomers. Ironically, I also started with a Ceriatone kit but move on to many scratch builds and currently service 100+ amps for a local shop each year, all mostly for hobby. I don't remember any negative thoughts directed at me for my first Ceriatone build at the time and this forum is my favorite by far. I think positive help is the only kind that should be offered in Technical Discussion and complaints or otherwise best saved for Garage Talk.
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by Phil_S »

Old Phil, he-he...where's my cane? :lol: (Honestly, I'm OK with it.)
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by MakerDP »

Well if someone doesn't want to help newcomers to the hobby, then they can just ignore it. Nobody is forcing anyone to read or respond to every post. :roll:
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by pompeiisneaks »

MakerDP that was pretty much the point of my comment on the other thread, if you aren't interested in a thread, ignore it. But it seemed at least on that thread that people felt the Ceriatone users were akin to spam and they were a huge waste of time on the forums.

Seems like so far here anyway, most people seem fine with helping out newbies.

~Phil
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by joeboo88 »

I think this thread is crazy.... :mrgreen:

I have been reading lots here for a few years and slowly learning from youse guys.
I know that if somebody posts something, even a silly question or input about grounding...whatever
You guys always answer, and I rarely read something where someone is snotty or negative.
We give a check to someone who was negative but almost always in a good natured way and then move on.

Us dummies rely on you guys that are able to take amp building to the next level and help us electronically challenged.
The patience of Martin.... and one of my favourite threads was Xtian clubman build where he asks a question and no one answers so he says.... fine I will build this and it will be the best amp ever.... or something like that. Still makes me laugh.

Keep helping
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by xtian »

joeboo88 wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 9:40 pmand one of my favourite threads was Xtian clubman build where he asks a question and no one answers so he says.... fine I will build this and it will be the best amp ever.... or something like that. Still makes me laugh.
Ha! True. Sometimes the only want to find the answer is to blunder into the dark jungle with a machete.
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by RJ Guitars »

The Purpose of this forum?? Can that ultimately be determined by anyone except the owner? If that party designates it to the participants then I spose we have a voice so I'll speak as if that is true but somewhere inside I'm not convinced. If it was really ours, I think we could have been more effective in steering her through some interesting times....

I sorta recall when this forum was clearly defined by two primary groups devoted to amp cloning and then a third that was a catch all of general discussion.Then a few things happened... from my perspective they are significant.

1) We added a handful of other amp brands to our menus... not a bad thing but diluted the unique flavor of the TAG forum.
2) The world became saturated with clone packages, NOS and custom parts vendors, DIY amp builders, and boutique amp builders.
3) The old guard at TAG had built a lot of clones and some of them just moved on to other things in life.
4) Many vendors and amp builders inside TAG were competing with each other and tensions heated things up a bit, and ultimately some really good contributors just went away to protect their product line
5) The big "E" as in ego seemed to pop up occasionally when an established contributor was challenged and we lost some more good contributors from that early core group.
6) Then as number of builds and posts were already going down, we had the malware issue which went unexplained and unaddressed for a very long time and sent us into a slow steady death spiral. Vendors lost business, builders quit posting, and new comers had no help.
7) New folks that did join in often took a scolding for asking the same questions already answered before and were simply told to learn how to use the search function.
8) New forums and old ones sorta took up the slack...

Can we get things back on track? It's an uphill battle at this point with the greatest offering being the extremely good folks that are still around and an incredible archive that has everything you ever wanted to know about the internals of the classics... I'm all for saving it but think it will require some liberal trimming things down to give it some distinction from the other options. YMMV
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Re: Purpose of this forum

Post by pompeiisneaks »

RJ Guitars wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:31 pm The Purpose of this forum?? Can that ultimately be determined by anyone except the owner? If that party designates it to the participants then I spose we have a voice so I'll speak as if that is true but somewhere inside I'm not convinced. If it was really ours, I think we could have been more effective in steering her through some interesting times....

I sorta recall when this forum was clearly defined by two primary groups devoted to amp cloning and then a third that was a catch all of general discussion.Then a few things happened... from my perspective they are significant.

1) We added a handful of other amp brands to our menus... not a bad thing but diluted the unique flavor of the TAG forum.
2) The world became saturated with clone packages, NOS and custom parts vendors, DIY amp builders, and boutique amp builders.
3) The old guard at TAG had built a lot of clones and some of them just moved on to other things in life.
4) Many vendors and amp builders inside TAG were competing with each other and tensions heated things up a bit, and ultimately some really good contributors just went away to protect their product line
5) The big "E" as in ego seemed to pop up occasionally when an established contributor was challenged and we lost some more good contributors from that early core group.
6) Then as number of builds and posts were already going down, we had the malware issue which went unexplained and unaddressed for a very long time and sent us into a slow steady death spiral. Vendors lost business, builders quit posting, and new comers had no help.
7) New folks that did join in often took a scolding for asking the same questions already answered before and were simply told to learn how to use the search function.
8) New forums and old ones sorta took up the slack...

Can we get things back on track? It's an uphill battle at this point with the greatest offering being the extremely good folks that are still around and an incredible archive that has everything you ever wanted to know about the internals of the classics... I'm all for saving it but think it will require some liberal trimming things down to give it some distinction from the other options. YMMV
First off, every impression I got from AllynMey was that he feels the direction of the forum is 100% in the hands of the users. I'm a moderator now, but only to help moderate, and follow the direction of the masses here. This is why I wanted to be sure I'm 'moderating' appropriately.

Thanks tons for the history, it helps me understand more about things.

As for 'back on track' this thread, just like any other, can be ignored if you're not interested in it, but it seems you are and I'm grateful for the insight. I have sensed the forum is slowly picking back up speed. I sense most people here have a strong opinion of what they want, and I was hoping to understand that better so I can help keep the forum on point as a moderator.

Thanks again to all for the feedback, input and insight. Feel free to let me know if you have any other concerns here, on other threads or via PM.

Cheers!

~Phil
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