I guess I pissed off so many people around here that I am no longer welcome. OK...fine. All I did as far as I know, was to participate in a Mr. Moore bashing session with about 20 others. I was sent an "insightful" PM from billv telling me to mind my manners. I asked him if he had scolded anyone else as they were much ruder than I had been. He didn't return my mail.
I needed a chassis for a TW and couldn't afford the ones I had seen yet, so I sent a PM to "(name removed by sender)" and asked about his blank undrilled product. He told me he would be happy to make me one when things slowed down a bit and told me the price was $41.99. I offered to send him $40.00 even and made a joke about not liking pennies. He agreed on the price. I sent him the 40 via Paypal. Then I got a rude PM back from him saying he had returned the money and made comments implying that I had somehow tried to screw him out of some money. Well that was BS, so that was that.
In the mean time, I had agreed to do a deal with "(name removed by sender)" for some caps, ordering a bunch at once. He ordered the caps on his own. I didn't hear from him till they came in. Because I didn't know what the deal was with him, I made other arrangements for some of the caps. When he finally did mail me, telling me that he had recieved the caps, I mailed him back and told him that I only needed some now, as I had made other arrangements for the other half. I told him that I would however, honor my committment for all the caps earmarked for me. He wrote me back and told me that it was "no problem Brian". and gave me the total for the caps I still needed. He wanted me to send a money order. I sent him a PM asking if he took Paypal. He didn't answer my mail. I reached him in another thread. What I got back was a rude bit of crap.
(Quote removed out of respect for a great moderator and great business dude)
I told him he could put them where the sun don't shine.
You know, I really like building amps and I have really learned alot by being here. But it is clear to me now that I really don't get along with some folks here, either for their fault or my own. Whatever.
I am sorry if I hurt others here. It really wasn't what I set out to do.
Brian
OK...I'm gone
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
OK...I'm gone
Last edited by mchauck on Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: OK...I'm gone
M, I miss Gary, really I do.
When I was growing up we had an old black dog. Every time I had something to say to my old man he'd make a point of talking baby talk to that damn dog instead of listening to me. I'd kick that dog every chance I got. When that dog died I missed him terribly, it felt more like a family member had died.
We in the amp building community are a cranky and opinionated lot. We all have our own very strong beliefs about tone, cost, quality, and more to the point The Way Things Should Be Done. We have some things in common but in many ways we're all different, look at all the different people here on this little site. I'd really like to change the world, I think my way is the best way but I'm not so arrogant that I think my way is the only way nor am I so arrogant to think that my way is the right way for you. My way is the right way for me, your way is the right way for you. Respect that. Cop an attitude and you may find that the world is a mirror, you'll get back what you give out.
If anyone was unwelcome here I'd be Number Two on the list. I'm sure you don't even make the list but who am I to say? What makes this site great is that we have wide latitude in posting and we somehow seem to (mostly) avoid the asinine flame wars and heavy handed "moderating" of some of those OTHER sites. I think there are other amp sites. I wouldn't know, I don't go there!
When I was growing up we had an old black dog. Every time I had something to say to my old man he'd make a point of talking baby talk to that damn dog instead of listening to me. I'd kick that dog every chance I got. When that dog died I missed him terribly, it felt more like a family member had died.
We in the amp building community are a cranky and opinionated lot. We all have our own very strong beliefs about tone, cost, quality, and more to the point The Way Things Should Be Done. We have some things in common but in many ways we're all different, look at all the different people here on this little site. I'd really like to change the world, I think my way is the best way but I'm not so arrogant that I think my way is the only way nor am I so arrogant to think that my way is the right way for you. My way is the right way for me, your way is the right way for you. Respect that. Cop an attitude and you may find that the world is a mirror, you'll get back what you give out.
If anyone was unwelcome here I'd be Number Two on the list. I'm sure you don't even make the list but who am I to say? What makes this site great is that we have wide latitude in posting and we somehow seem to (mostly) avoid the asinine flame wars and heavy handed "moderating" of some of those OTHER sites. I think there are other amp sites. I wouldn't know, I don't go there!
Re: OK...I'm gone
I guess I was the one who started the "Gary Bashing" and I for one am glad he is gone. It all goes back to the one bad apple thing. I got a bunch of PMs asking me to "mind my manners" but I got just as many more thanking me for putting an end to Gary's BS. He had absolutly no intentions of sharing anything with us and was only here to stroke his ego and try and sell his ridiculous mods. If you miss Gary just join Sewatt and you can get your fill of him there.mchauck wrote: I guess I pissed off so many people around here that I am no longer welcome. OK...fine. All I did as far as I know, was to participate in a Mr. Moore bashing session with about 20 others. I was sent an "insightful" PM from billv telling me to mind my manners. I asked him if he had scolded anyone else as they were much ruder than I had been. He didn't return my mail.
mchauck wrote: I needed a chassis for a TW and couldn't afford the ones I had seen yet, so I sent a PM to "rick" and asked about his blank undrilled product. He told me he would be happy to make me one when things slowed down a bit and told me the price was $41.99. I offered to send him $40.00 even and made a joke about not liking pennies. He agreed on the price. I sent him the 40 via Paypal. Then I got a rude PM back from him saying he had returned the money and made comments implying that I had somehow tried to screw him out of some money. Well that was BS, so that was that.
I have dealt with Rick on a few occasions. His work and product are top notch. I too make perfboard sets for guys on this forum. I think people need to understand that we create this stuff by hand in our garages and basements when we have time. We work 40 hr a week jobs and create amp parts on the weekends and evenings. We aren't making a killing on these parts as we don't rely on them for our livelyhood. I'm sure Rick had a reason for asking for an additional 1.99 and I think I too would be offended if someone asked me to reduce the price of my boards which are already below what others charge for plain gargolite boards. If it wer'nt for people like Rick you may be paying $50 - 100 for a chassis. Paypal took another 2 bucks from Rick and that means he only recieved about $38. That means he just lost 10% on the sale. That might not sound like much , but why do you think all of the other chassis you were looking at cost so much more.
If you have only pissed off Rick, Noel and Billv then you got about another 5000 people you haven't pissed off yet, so why leave so soon?mchauck wrote:You know, I really like building amps and I have really learned alot by being here. But it is clear to me now that I really don't get along with some folks here, either for their fault or my own. Whatever.
I am sorry if I hurt others here. It really wasn't what I set out to do.
Brian
Re: OK...I'm gone
Brian Please check your PM's
Thnx
Greg
Thnx
Greg
Re: OK...I'm gone
I don't keep up on the personality wars here but as just an observation from outside looking in, sound like petty squabbling.
I do however, dislike when I am already giving somebody a good deal on something to have them try to dicker me down another few bucks.
Even if you dislike a price that ends with an odd amount.
When I am able to find something that is hard to get I usually am glad to pay whatever within reason.
Brian, sounds like you took offense and maybe should try to be a little thicker skinned when it comes to dealing with people.
People were doing you a favor from the way it sounds.
If I had ordered a bunch of stuff which included parts for somebody else I think I would be pissed off too if that person backed out of the deal.
Remember, communication has to work both ways and that people can't read intentions very well on the internet unless there is an active dialog.
The Gary thing which I participated in seemed like a non event so I don't know what happened there.
The guy sounded like a 12 year old asshat and was treated as such.
I do however, dislike when I am already giving somebody a good deal on something to have them try to dicker me down another few bucks.
Even if you dislike a price that ends with an odd amount.
When I am able to find something that is hard to get I usually am glad to pay whatever within reason.
Brian, sounds like you took offense and maybe should try to be a little thicker skinned when it comes to dealing with people.
People were doing you a favor from the way it sounds.
If I had ordered a bunch of stuff which included parts for somebody else I think I would be pissed off too if that person backed out of the deal.
Remember, communication has to work both ways and that people can't read intentions very well on the internet unless there is an active dialog.
The Gary thing which I participated in seemed like a non event so I don't know what happened there.
The guy sounded like a 12 year old asshat and was treated as such.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: OK...I'm gone
Dana makes an excellent point that most of us are weekend and evening amp warriors. For the majority of us, it doesn't pay the bills, but helps us keep our sanity (insanity for a few of us 
).
Gary is a weird dude. Sometimes he is extremely nice and helpful, other times he's totally acidic. I for one am in favor of not banning anyone, but you can only go on so many tirades before the rug gets yanked from under your feet. Gary seems to me to need some counseling or possibly medication, which is sad that the military hasn't taken care of him better...or is this the result
As far as SEwatt is concerned, Gary has been playing nicely again for sometime, but I think the members there also take him with a large grain of salt. Not everyone cares for what his amps are all about, so they choose to ignore his posts.
Anyway, no need to turn tail and run mchauk. I am sure all your issues will get worked out. Sometimes it is impossible to get in touch with folks because of a variety of reasons. Be persistent and nice, and it should all work out.
About forum etiquette, this place and the wattkins family of forums are some of the most civilized forums around. Try hanging at TGP and the Les Paul forum for a while and you'll be shocked at the foul language and outright tongue lashing folks get at those places. Mods don't seem to mind it unless you bad mouth the wrong person, guitar, company, etc. Then you'll here about it.
).Gary is a weird dude. Sometimes he is extremely nice and helpful, other times he's totally acidic. I for one am in favor of not banning anyone, but you can only go on so many tirades before the rug gets yanked from under your feet. Gary seems to me to need some counseling or possibly medication, which is sad that the military hasn't taken care of him better...or is this the result
As far as SEwatt is concerned, Gary has been playing nicely again for sometime, but I think the members there also take him with a large grain of salt. Not everyone cares for what his amps are all about, so they choose to ignore his posts. Anyway, no need to turn tail and run mchauk. I am sure all your issues will get worked out. Sometimes it is impossible to get in touch with folks because of a variety of reasons. Be persistent and nice, and it should all work out.
About forum etiquette, this place and the wattkins family of forums are some of the most civilized forums around. Try hanging at TGP and the Les Paul forum for a while and you'll be shocked at the foul language and outright tongue lashing folks get at those places. Mods don't seem to mind it unless you bad mouth the wrong person, guitar, company, etc. Then you'll here about it.
Eardrums!!! We don't need no stinkin' eardrums!
-
CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: OK...I'm gone
The way I see it this site is a sample of the larger population. We're united by a common interest (amps) which skews the curve a bit but I'd expect to see a similar cross section of personality types indicative of the larger population, this is elementary statistical analysis. Perhaps our little population would be better educated and a little more skilled, we're all nominally computer literate and we all have a nominal technical aptitude... we either build amps or we're interested in building amps.
With me so far?
What I find troubling is that some of us are infantile, thin skinned and petty, others are arrogant to the point of psychosis. IF the sample I see here is indicative of the population at large we're in big big trouble. They might teach readin', writin' and 'rithmatic in school but it seems to me that a few of us have missed the important life lessons.
I saw a great term in an eBay seller's description the other day... "sub-moronic". While I like a good laugh now and then even if it's at someone else's expense I try to treat everyone fairly and with the respect they deserve. I wouldn't want to wake up one day to find I've become "sub-moronic". Been there, done that, got the merit badge to prove it!
With me so far?
What I find troubling is that some of us are infantile, thin skinned and petty, others are arrogant to the point of psychosis. IF the sample I see here is indicative of the population at large we're in big big trouble. They might teach readin', writin' and 'rithmatic in school but it seems to me that a few of us have missed the important life lessons.
I saw a great term in an eBay seller's description the other day... "sub-moronic". While I like a good laugh now and then even if it's at someone else's expense I try to treat everyone fairly and with the respect they deserve. I wouldn't want to wake up one day to find I've become "sub-moronic". Been there, done that, got the merit badge to prove it!
Re: OK...I'm gone
What my parents taught me:
You're not better than anyone else.
Nobody owes you anything.
Say 'Please' and 'Thank you.'
Share with others because you can, not because you should.
Work hard.
Be honest (with yourself and everyone else).
These things, plus learning a little forum and internet etiquette, would keep most of us out of trouble. It sure rules out arrogance, but it doesn't justify stupidity. Sometimes I think we just haven't learned how much the internet leads to misinterpretation
You're not better than anyone else.
Nobody owes you anything.
Say 'Please' and 'Thank you.'
Share with others because you can, not because you should.
Work hard.
Be honest (with yourself and everyone else).
These things, plus learning a little forum and internet etiquette, would keep most of us out of trouble. It sure rules out arrogance, but it doesn't justify stupidity. Sometimes I think we just haven't learned how much the internet leads to misinterpretation
Tim
In case the NSA is listening, KMA!
In case the NSA is listening, KMA!
Re: OK...I'm gone
A big +1 on that one Doc!
As a baby boomer I think I was taught a lot of values lost on the younger generations.
It's a busy world these days and teaching kids to respect others seems to have been lost in the shuffle.
As a baby boomer I think I was taught a lot of values lost on the younger generations.
It's a busy world these days and teaching kids to respect others seems to have been lost in the shuffle.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: OK...I'm gone
Damn straight fellars!
I'm only 38, but I wasn't raised to be as disrespectful as much of our younger generation has become. A lot of this can be attributed to the dismantling of "The New Deal" that built our middle class to be strong and prosperous. Families could live very comfortably on one income. Now most every family has to rely on dual incomes and/or multiple jobs to get by. This generation (including me to some extent) was raised by our television networks and video game consoles. Parents need to be afford the time to raise their kids in a proper manner, but that's not as important as rewarding CEOs and other Corp Execs with 7 figure bonuses, massive options, grants, warrants, etc.
I'm only 38, but I wasn't raised to be as disrespectful as much of our younger generation has become. A lot of this can be attributed to the dismantling of "The New Deal" that built our middle class to be strong and prosperous. Families could live very comfortably on one income. Now most every family has to rely on dual incomes and/or multiple jobs to get by. This generation (including me to some extent) was raised by our television networks and video game consoles. Parents need to be afford the time to raise their kids in a proper manner, but that's not as important as rewarding CEOs and other Corp Execs with 7 figure bonuses, massive options, grants, warrants, etc.
Eardrums!!! We don't need no stinkin' eardrums!
-
skyboltone
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 7:02 pm
- Location: Sparks, NV, where nowhere looks like home.
Re: OK...I'm gone
All interesting points Dart, but there are a couple of other points to make. The graduated income tax didn't top out at 33% in the 1950's when me and Beaver Cleaver were born. (I might add that the Dow Jones Industrials had flatlined for nearly 25 years by the time the top bracket was lowered.) And in 1973 or 74 the courts decided that the wife's income could be used for the basis of qualification on a home loan. Seemed like a good idea at the time but it locked succeeding generations into two income families. Nobody benifited but the banks and their investors. Got any financial sector funds in your portfolio? I do. I was raised in a 1600 square foot three bed two bath house. Have you seen what they build now adays? (I ain't talking about you, where you live the price of a two and one would buy a Mansion on acreage in southern Illinois.) I read a really interesting report one time of a meeting between an engineer, a medical researcher, an industrialist, a economist, and a farmer on how to solve the world's problems. They all spoke of magnificent ideas and plans in just about that order then they got to the farmer. He got up, went to the podium and said two words, then sat down. The moderator asked him to repeat what he had just said, so he got up, went to the podium and said in a loud clear voice; "Want Less". He meant of course everyone but me........and you.dartanion wrote:Damn straight fellars!
I'm only 38, but I wasn't raised to be as disrespectful as much of our younger generation has become. A lot of this can be attributed to the dismantling of "The New Deal" that built our middle class to be strong and prosperous. Families could live very comfortably on one income. Now most every family has to rely on dual incomes and/or multiple jobs to get by. This generation (including me to some extent) was raised by our television networks and video game consoles. Parents need to be afford the time to raise their kids in a proper manner, but that's not as important as rewarding CEOs and other Corp Execs with 7 figure bonuses, massive options, grants, warrants, etc.
We have seen the enemy and he is us!
Dan
The Last of the World's Great Human Beings
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Re: OK...I'm gone
GREED!!!
Exactly! I'm not greedy, I just want to make enough to retire to the boonies, build a strawbale home and business space, have a huge organic hop garden, home brew, and geek out over amps and guitars.
What I was getting at is that the distribution of wealth in this country has been tipping back towards the robber baron era. Haves and have nots. The average American's income has been receding for years as the wealthiest American's are getting richer at an alarming rate. I see bonuses handed out that are more than most people make in a year in my industry. Read your company's annual report sometime to see what sort of ridiculous forms of income that execs get. My favorites were the no interest personal loans and personal loan forgiveness notes. Yes sir. The company just decided to give you some cash. Nice! No merit, just plain old profiteering.
I'm doing pretty well, but I am working harder than ever for less money than I was a few years ago. It's also a much more volatile market. Companies in my industry are downsizing and outsourcing, so good thing I own a very small consulting firm. I just have to do more to stay on goal to leave here in 2011 and semi-retire to rural Oregon and lead the simple life.
Exactly! I'm not greedy, I just want to make enough to retire to the boonies, build a strawbale home and business space, have a huge organic hop garden, home brew, and geek out over amps and guitars.
What I was getting at is that the distribution of wealth in this country has been tipping back towards the robber baron era. Haves and have nots. The average American's income has been receding for years as the wealthiest American's are getting richer at an alarming rate. I see bonuses handed out that are more than most people make in a year in my industry. Read your company's annual report sometime to see what sort of ridiculous forms of income that execs get. My favorites were the no interest personal loans and personal loan forgiveness notes. Yes sir. The company just decided to give you some cash. Nice! No merit, just plain old profiteering.
I'm doing pretty well, but I am working harder than ever for less money than I was a few years ago. It's also a much more volatile market. Companies in my industry are downsizing and outsourcing, so good thing I own a very small consulting firm. I just have to do more to stay on goal to leave here in 2011 and semi-retire to rural Oregon and lead the simple life.
Eardrums!!! We don't need no stinkin' eardrums!
Re: OK...I'm gone
I ask Brian to consider sticking around.
So why no revolution as in 1789 France? Because we're all mostly well fed and kept amused by a multitude of trivial distractions. Is that good or bad? - you decide - but most of us live longer and are still pretty well-off by real historical standards- and until it that situation really changes the people and corporations you decry won't stop in their accumulation of wealth.
I got myself into trouble the last time I went near this topic,
so "that's all I have to say about that".
Yes that's right, and not just USA, but all through "western" world. It's getting a little better for many in the "third" world though.dartanion wrote:GREED!!!
Exactly! I'm not greedy, I just want to make enough to retire to the boonies, build a strawbale home and business space, have a huge organic hop garden, home brew, and geek out over amps and guitars.
What I was getting at is that the distribution of wealth in this country has been tipping back towards the robber baron era. Haves and have nots.
So why no revolution as in 1789 France? Because we're all mostly well fed and kept amused by a multitude of trivial distractions. Is that good or bad? - you decide - but most of us live longer and are still pretty well-off by real historical standards- and until it that situation really changes the people and corporations you decry won't stop in their accumulation of wealth.
I got myself into trouble the last time I went near this topic,
so "that's all I have to say about that".
Re: OK...I'm gone
Aww go on...Ears wrote:Yes that's right, and not just USA, but all through "western" world. It's getting a little better for many in the "third" world though.dartanion wrote:GREED!!!
Exactly! I'm not greedy, I just want to make enough to retire to the boonies, build a strawbale home and business space, have a huge organic hop garden, home brew, and geek out over amps and guitars.
What I was getting at is that the distribution of wealth in this country has been tipping back towards the robber baron era. Haves and have nots.
So why no revolution as in 1789 France? Because we're all mostly well fed and kept amused by a multitude of trivial distractions. Is that good or bad? - you decide - but most of us live longer and are still pretty well-off by real historical standards- and until it that situation really changes the people and corporations you decry won't stop in their accumulation of wealth.
I got myself into trouble the last time I went near this topic,
from one pinko commie hippie to another...
History? I was born on 4th July 1955... part of the first "western" generation where children routinely "survived". Even my mother's older sister had a child (Martin) die from something or other (whooping cough?).
We forget that history is pretty darn close.
Revolution? nah... too busy watching "Big Brother" or "**** Idol".
While on the topic how can you revolt against something as diffused as a multi-national - we can cast CEO's as the bad guys (and in some cases it's true) but really it's systemic - CEO and everyone can be as nice as pie and the result is still negative in some respect.
But is it positive overall? Dunno... doesn't feel too positive... but hey - I'm a techo - give me $20 and I'd ask for 4x$5
Now mix me another molotov miss trotsky...
PS yeah come back mchauck - we need more pissing off...
-
CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: OK...I'm gone
While we're bein' all warm and cuddly I'll talk about my upbringing... as you might have gathered by some of my posts I wasn't brought up right. My old man couldn't differentiate respect from fear so modern politics are familiar territory for me. I should be dead or in jail but I'm not. I figured things out the hard way by de-constructing everything I was taught and examining all of it on the basis of merit. Like everything else I do I re-assembled my belief system my way. It wasn't quick and it wasn't easy. By comparison building amps is simple and tangible.dartanion wrote:I'm only 38, but I wasn't raised to be as disrespectful as much of our younger generation has become.
Been there, done that.dartanion wrote:Exactly! I'm not greedy, I just want to make enough to retire to the boonies, build a strawbale home and business space, have a huge organic hop garden, home brew, and geek out over amps and guitars.
My buddy the straw bale builder is chasin' after work right now. Even the trust funders are pinchin' pennies.
Purchasing enough land to homestead on out West is out of reach of many of us. You might as well buy 20 acres in Sonoma and grow grapes.
There's plenty of inexpensive land in the Mid-West but all the good land costs big bucks. There are always issues, for example water resources are becoming increasingly scarce in most of the U.S.. IMHO the Department of Interior or the BLM should take inventory of all the prime agricultural land, designate it as agricultural land and conserve it as agricultural land. Count on the Government to screw it up, though! As the suburbs spread out a lot of prime agricultural land is being lost. With the cost of diesel being what it is the correct combination of favorable climate, available water and proximity to markets is becoming more and more precious.
Right. So what are we going to do about it?dartanion wrote:What I was getting at is that the distribution of wealth in this country has been tipping back towards the robber baron era. Haves and have nots. The average American's income has been receding for years as the wealthiest American's are getting richer at an alarming rate. I see bonuses handed out that are more than most people make in a year in my industry. Read your company's annual report sometime to see what sort of ridiculous forms of income that execs get. My favorites were the no interest personal loans and personal loan forgiveness notes. Yes sir. The company just decided to give you some cash. Nice! No merit, just plain old profiteering.
"You know, I found the simple life, weren"t so simple, nodartanion wrote:I'm doing pretty well, but I am working harder than ever for less money than I was a few years ago. It's also a much more volatile market. Companies in my industry are downsizing and outsourcing, so good thing I own a very small consulting firm. I just have to do more to stay on goal to leave here in 2011 and semi-retire to rural Oregon and lead the simple life.
When I jumped out on that road"
While a rural and pastoral life may look attractive it takes years to understand and appreciate the nuances of rural life. Truth of the matter is rural areas become less rural as all sorts of yuppies carve up the pastures for their own little piece of the good life. Those used to urban convenience expect the same convenience out in the sticks, usually the sticks become the 'burbs 'cuz the yuppies can't figure out the adapt and survive thing.
So I'm preachin' to the choir.nickt wrote:Aww go on...
from one pinko commie hippie to another...
Revolution? nah... too busy watching "Big Brother" or "**** Idol".
Now mix me another molotov miss trotsky...
Part of the problem as I see it is that we expect new solutions to old problems. Why not old solutions to old problems? Refer to my first statement, "I've de-constructed my belief system and re-assembled it on merit".
The solution as I see it is to see politics as a Chinese menu, I can choose solutions from any category regardless of party affiliation. Good ideas are good ideas. Greed and arrogance are greed and arrogance.
Funny you invoke embryonic Russian communism as a joke, in fact embryonic Russian communism WAS a joke. Mix collectivism, totalitarianism and genocide, label it as "communism" then have a good old laugh 70 years later when the system crumbles.
The "hippy communes" of the late '60s and early '70s may have been a better example. Some of them were actually cults so totalitarianism applies but to my knowledge a lethal mix of communism and genocide was fairly uncommon. Invoke Jonestown for the exception.
Still, count the surviving communes. Most of them failed. I understand. I work hard for my shit and my shit is my shit it ain't your shit! I want my $41.99 plus shipping not $40.00 with no shipping and less PayPal's cut. Go "liberate" the extra dough from some big corporation, I work hard for mine!
YEAH! Pissed off or pissed on it all makes for a lively discussion.nickt wrote:PS yeah come back mchauck - we need more pissing off...