Weber vs Scumback greenbacks

[skyboltone]

Putting aside for a moment the hatred for all things Ted Weber is there anyone who has tested both the 1225 Weber and the M-75 Scummy and wants to offer a review? If you've got an endorsement contract or something then PM me. I wanna build a 1960 slant with the right sound without spending $1666 for a set of used speakers.

[Ron Worley]

I would love to hear this too.. and throw in comments on the warehouse green berets too, if you have an opinion.

I have an empty JCM800 cab waiting for speakers and even the thought of $600+ for new Scumbags makes me pause......

Ron

[billyz]

Since Weber makes the Scumback I would not expect too much difference especially if you break in the speaker well before comparing. Is the 1225 the closet match to the Scumback? Pre Rola dope? Mueller cone? etc.

I have had very good experience with Weber speakers to date. And I do have a couple scumbacks h55 and h75.

[Scumback Speakers]

There are a lot of differences. Ted gets about 10 emails per week regarding this, and he tells them the same thing each time...different cone/treatment, doping, etc. than a My Tone.

Ted has offered the pre rola doping option for years. I tried them myself about five years ago. They weren't exactly what I was looking for, so I contacted Ted, we worked out an arrangement, and I sent him several original "holy grail" tone Pre Rola speakers, plus identical ones with burnt voice coils to autopsy.

Five months of testing later (12/04) the H series were done, five months after that (4/05) the M series was done, the Alnicos took a lot longer to dial in.

There was a considerable amount of R&D and testing done to get the Scumbacks to sound right, which you can tell when you hear them compared to other speakers, even the My Tone models.

Here's the M75 clip page, which has 43 different sound clips on it, including the ones Glen Kuykendall (geetarpicker) did for me.

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/clips/m_clips.html

[Scumback Speakers]

I have had very good experience with Weber speakers to date. And I do have a couple scumbacks h55 and h75.

Did you get that used/blown/damaged H75 rebuilt, Billy? I know Weber contacted me to make sure that you were authorized/legit to get it rebuilt a few weeks back.

[billyz]

Jim,
I sent it back to Ted and have not heard anything yet. I really want to thank you for your assistance. your speakers are the best no doubt, i don't know what your magic formula is but it works. I have a little 1x12 combo wreck style to put it in for a customer as soon as I get it back.

I have a question for you. I use a little transformer breakin box I made on most new speakers. do you think it would be needed on a recone of your H75? I know they sound great right out of the box and I suspect you break them in prior to shipping.

[Scumback Speakers]

Billy, the filament transformer setup (if that's what you have) works for break in. There's also a complete formula to break in speakers with a variac I use.

Variac break in times are as follows:

Speaker
Imp Power Rating Break in Voltage How Long?
8___________ 65____________13.165____________2 to 3 hours - light break in
8___________ 30 ____________ 8.9
16___________65 ___________ 18.61 ____________8-12 hours - medium
16__________ 30 ___________ 12.64
8 __________ 100 ___________ 16.325 ____________20 to 25 - full break inl
16 __________100 ___________ 23.094

I usually limit the break in to 8 hours per session so the speaker doesn't overheat.

This formula is for the Scumbacks only.

If you want to do Celestion Reissues or Heritages, you're going to have to be very patient. When I mean very patient, I mean ridiculously patient.

I bought a few of the Heritage G12M 20 watt and G12H30's from a couple TGP members this year. They claimed to have put 120 gig hours on them, plus 40-50 hours of bedroom/TV volume and they were still too bright (hence why they were selling them so cheap).

When I got them I tested them. They were not as bright as a brand new Heritage M & H I owned before, but they were far from acceptable.

I put them on the variac for five days (40 hours). Still not enough. Put them back on the variac for another 2 days (16 hours)...still not there.

After 9 days on the variac they were finally broken in. Of course, this was on top of the 120 gig hours they'd already had.

I know a variac will break in a speaker roughly 2 to 2.5 times as fast as actual playing since it moves the cone constantly, so that 72 hours I had it on the variac was the equivalent of around 175 hours of actual gig volume plus the original 120.

When players informed me that it was around 250 - 300 hours of playing to get them broken in, they were right. The Celestion rep, Rick Skillman, told me the same thing back in 2005. I just didn't believe his estimate.

Turns out he was right. I don't have that kind of time available to wait for a speaker to break in anymore, personally.

Your rebuilt H75 will be just like a new Scumback except you need to break it in accordingly...around 20-25 hours for a 30 watt, 40-50 hours for a 65 watt, 60-70 for a 100 watt version.

[billyz]

Jim,

this is awesome stuff. Only someone with your experience would have this info I think. I did not realize it took so long, guess I'll let em buzz a lot longer.

[Scumback Speakers]

Happy to help, Billy. Enjoy your H75 (the price was right!) after it's dialed in.

[Ron Worley]

Jim-

Can you elaborate on the test box that you use? I have a Variac, but I think that you must be using something additionally than just plain AC voltage?

Thanks,

Ron

[Scumback Speakers]

Jim-

Can you elaborate on the test box that you use? I have a Variac, but I think that you must be using something additionally than just plain AC voltage?

Thanks,

Ron

Ron,
There's no test box involved for the speaker/variac break in. You wire the speakers in parallel (if you're doing more than one), and leave them in your cab, ISO cab, or if they're loose, lying magnet down, cone up. They can't be setup with the cone down, or anything that restricts the cone movement by sealing the air around the front of the cone. The cone will move with the variac sending it's annoying 60 cycle signal to the speaker. I advise the garage, closet, or ISO cab if possible.

You set your variac to the proper voltage per the chart above, double check it with a multi-meter, turn it on and let it buzz/grate your teeth for the appropriate amount of hours or days needed.

[billyz]

I am using a standard Hammond filament transformer. It has a center tap secondary and I wired it so I can also use one side for lower voltage. It puts out around 7.6 VAC with out a load. I was conservative because I did not want to burn a speaker. I just leave it on in the garage after I mount the speaker, the wife has been really great about it too, ha ha.
The Variac is a really cool idea and another reason to dust it off more often.

Jim, Thanks for your willingness to share your hard earned experience. I think it only lends itself to making you a true Master of the Guitar speaker.

[Scumback Speakers]

You can actually thank Ted Weber for most of this knowledge. I got the majority from him about the variac thing...and I tested it on the Heritages before doing it to mine.

I realize some people don't like Ted's amp kits, since they're not always like the originals...but he's got a bunch of other good information to share.

[Cygnus X1]

You can actually thank Ted Weber for most of this knowledge. I got the majority from him about the variac thing...and I tested it on the Heritages before doing it to mine.

I realize some people don't like Ted's amp kits, since they're not always like the originals...but he's got a bunch of other good information to share.

I haven't been building for very long, so take that into consideration.
But, Weber has been the only one I have found so far that knows how to actually fill an order. And the transformers and speakers have been a great bargain.

Two of the same amp...SEL...the Weber kills the Hammond for tone. and it was 13 dollars cheaper. The power trannies...the same, very little heat and voltage drop at the same load compared to the NOS or Hammonds.

I know about the cheap pots...he has gone to upgrades. I only wish he would carry some decent tubes! I have to shop elsewhere for those.

[Abstract]

If you want to do Celestion Reissues or Heritages, you're going to have to be very patient. When I mean very patient, I mean ridiculously patient.

I bought a few of the Heritage G12M 20 watt and G12H30's from a couple TGP members this year. They claimed to have put 120 gig hours on them, plus 40-50 hours of bedroom/TV volume and they were still too bright (hence why they were selling them so cheap).

At this point, banging the speakers at gig levels for 120 hours, are your speakers giving in......or are your ears giving out?


I like adding stuff to the cones and surrounds to damp the high-end.