Piracy think tank

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skyboltone
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by skyboltone » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:58 pm

Tubetwang wrote:They have 2000 trillions in US...
Ahemmmm. Actually no. Check your numbers.
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Structo
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Structo » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:10 pm

2000 trillions?

Is that like a gazillion? :lol:
Tom

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Abstract
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Abstract » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:23 pm

Structo wrote:2000 trillions?

Is that like a gazillion? :lol:
I think it's technically 2 gazillion. :lol:



Aren't there enough servicemen coming home in the coming months, looking for a job, to outfit every ship traveling thru that area with a security force? Seems like that could be a well paying gig for a special type of person.
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rfgordon
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by rfgordon » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:01 am

The bizarre conundrum is that it is far more expensive to insure the ship when there are firearms aboard than not. Also, some ports will not allow armed merchant ships to moor. In most cases, the ransom paid to recover a ship is far less than the bond posted for the cargo.

International law, particularly the parts applied to sailing the seven seas, is intricate and exceptionally arcane.

For example, a ship in pursuit of a pirate's vessel or a pirated vessel, must maintain visual contact (radar and thermal does not count, nor does surveillance from air or space) in order for the pirates, once apprehended, to be convicted in international court.

Ya gotta remember two things:
!. Much of this body of law was codified in the late 1700s
2. International courts are as effective as the UN.
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Abstract
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Abstract » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:18 am

rfgordon wrote:The bizarre conundrum is that it is far more expensive to insure the ship when there are firearms aboard than not. Also, some ports will not allow armed merchant ships to moor. In most cases, the ransom paid to recover a ship is far less than the bond posted for the cargo.

International law, particularly the parts applied to sailing the seven seas, is intricate and exceptionally arcane.

For example, a ship in pursuit of a pirate's vessel or a pirated vessel, must maintain visual contact (radar and thermal does not count, nor does surveillance from air or space) in order for the pirates, once apprehended, to be convicted in international court.

Ya gotta remember two things:
!. Much of this body of law was codified in the late 1700s
2. International courts are as effective as the UN.

If the laws worked, pirates wouldn't be doing this. Who prosecutes crimes on the open sea? Why don't they prosecute Somali's?

Just don't worry about prosecution. Get them before they can get TO you. If no country will try the Somali's, let the law of the sea dictate what happens.

Who would disagree with ships setting sail with no mercenaries, secretly rendezvousing with them and then keeping a team of well armed soldiers on board until they're out of dangerous waters?

A few .50cal BMG's, maybe a rocket/grenade launcher or two, night vision goggles, and a few good men should keep a ship safe.

I would think Blackwater would be all over this.
drhulsey wrote:There are just too many cool things in this world for one life. Thank God for reincarnation 8)

Tubetwang
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Tubetwang » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:07 pm

rfgordon wrote:The bizarre conundrum is that it is far more expensive to insure the ship when there are firearms aboard than not. Also, some ports will not allow armed merchant ships to moor. In most cases, the ransom paid to recover a ship is far less than the bond posted for the cargo.

International law, particularly the parts applied to sailing the seven seas, is intricate and exceptionally arcane.

For example, a ship in pursuit of a pirate's vessel or a pirated vessel, must maintain visual contact (radar and thermal does not count, nor does surveillance from air or space) in order for the pirates, once apprehended, to be convicted in international court.

Ya gotta remember two things:
!. Much of this body of law was codified in the late 1700s
2. International courts are as effective as the UN.
I've seen footage of French soldiers chasing pirates and getting them...

But the pirates dump their weapons into the sea. One boat had a ladder on ...Fishermans don't use ladders to fish...

No guns, no crime...

Somalia is ruled by war lords...

It would be easy to hire gunslingers and pop them pirates off their tiny boats...but the law is the law!

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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Andy Le Blanc » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:41 pm

Convoy, with armed escort. That would work in international waters
They've been simply going around them. These are very big boats,
got to give the locals a great big "AARGH when your smelly" for even trying.
Its funny, a bunch of yahoos with a power skiff bringing regional trade to a standstill.
OH NO!!!! Look out...... they're armed, maybe we'll get pelted with baboon turds.
Open a few walmarts in the region, get some fast food goin on, they'll be too
fat get into the skiff in no time flat.
lazymaryamps

Tubetwang
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Tubetwang » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:37 pm

i was winging it again...

I'm a loose guy really...too easy...

Checked on the numbers again...

I'ts only 1.95 Trillion (give or take a thousand millions) and not 2000 trillion as advertized above...

I get numbers (and resistors ) wrong sometimes...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123780272456212885.html

CaseyJones
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by CaseyJones » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:46 pm

Andy Le Blanc wrote:OH NO!!!! Look out...... they're armed, maybe we'll get pelted with baboon turds.
7.62 and RPG rounds. Those are some pretty hard "baboon turds". :lol:

I still don't see what the problem is. Yeah, you might get a few 7.62 holes punched in your containers in a firefight. So don't make it a firefight. Just pick 'em off w/ suppressed 9mm before they get over the railing.

You'd be surprised how many well armed Parrotheads are out in the Caribbean. Drug smugglers would jsut as soon throw your carcass over the side and use your boat to smuggle dope. A shotgun or an Uzi tends to even things up a bit. I don't see how it's that different around the Horn of Africa.
I believe in this and it's tested by research...

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Structo
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Structo » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:17 pm

I don't understand the reticence of our government to take care of this.

The news said this moring that the life boat was within 14 miles of Somalia's shore.

They said if the pirates get the captain to shore it will be a whole new ball game.

WTF!?

Those US SEALS have some pretty trick equipment and they could sneak up underwater and surprise the dirtbags before they even knew what was happening.

I'm sure that Marcus Luttrell and his buddies wouldn't have any problems taking them out. :wink:
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!

RevD
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by RevD » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:18 pm

Pirates 0 U.S. 1, just in 3 pirates dead, one wounded in custody and the captain is safe and sound. In a 'Naval Operation' he was rescued, sounds like a seal team boarded and shot the crap out of everyone to me. Good job, that's how we roll.

Regards,

Rev. D

Edit: My bad, Navy snipers... Good shot guys.

Abstract
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Abstract » Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:56 pm

I read the 4 pirates were all in sight at once and 3 snipers each took one...all at once. Then I read that the firefight took 4 minutes...so who knows?

It seems consistant that they left one pirate to surrender.

HAH!





I changed my mind....have these vessels bunch up into groups and let a few military ships usher them thru. Heck one military ship may be able to get the job done.
drhulsey wrote:There are just too many cool things in this world for one life. Thank God for reincarnation 8)

CaseyJones
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by CaseyJones » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:14 pm

The hilarious part for me is that the pirates "vow revenge" on the U.S.. WTF?!! That's just dumb-ass gangsta mentality, as if these guys have a right to shake shipping down. Fair is fair... if they think they have a right to point AK47s at our people we have a right to point 700BDLs back. I know which one I'd prefer for 1MOA @ 800 yards... :twisted:
I believe in this and it's tested by research...

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Structo
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Structo » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:30 pm

That's pretty impressive sniping.
It was almost dark so they used starlight scopes.

Taking the shots from ships bobbing in the waves, even more impressive.

I wonder what the range was?

I read they still have 18 ships and crews held hostage. WTF?
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!

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drhulsey
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by drhulsey » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:00 pm

CaseyJones wrote: ... the pirates "vow revenge" on the U.S...
They vow revenge because we have "committed aggression." :lol:
Once upon a time pirates were dealt with swiftly and harshly. If there's no downside to being a pirate, why would they stop.
They need some swift, harsh negative re-inforcement :evil:

As Dan said, ransom has been cheaper that military operations. Maybe the shipping companies could "hire" the pirates to "guard" their vessels :wink:
Tim

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