Piracy think tank

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skyboltone
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Piracy think tank

Post by skyboltone » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:59 pm

It seems that there must be a solution to the current Somalian piracy problem. Without being over reactionary......

1) So far, I think, the pirates have received less than $400 million total in ransoms.
2) In most cases the ransoms are paid by the owners of the cargo; either Chinese or Arab sheiks.
3) In most cases there has been no loss of life.
4) Yachts have been warned to stay away but persist in doing stupid things.

A) Units of the French, Indian, and US navies are deployed to the area, (total cost way over $400 million). They always seem to be behind the action.
a. Don't we have Satellite technology that can spot these mother ships?
b. Couldn't these Navy's blockade the coastline and rather easily sink any vessel more than 20 miles offshore of these lawless countries?
c. Cruise missles cost about $10 million. We have intellegence on the ground to locate warlords......either armed drone aircraft or missles could be used to surgically remove the bad guys.


Is the lack of coordination just a lack of good sense or am I underestimating the problems? Is it just about the money? I'm quite sure that nobody wants the Chinese navy offshore of Somalia.....seeing as how they have a vested interest in unstable governments. Can't the Saudi's afford a few guided missle cruisers?

African Islamic warlords have proven in the past (and present; ie Darfur) to be amongst the worlds most brutal killers. It would appear that no nation has any strategic interest in Africa.....hence whatever they do to each other seems of no consequence. Would a hundred or so Daisy Cutter bombs dropped on Mogadishu cause any more loss of innocent life than is currently occurring? Obviously, civilized nations don't do that sort of thing unless there is strategic or tactical motivation.

It would seem to me that a global policy of immediate ransom payment might ultimately be cheaper than a military response but the disruption of world trade is not cheap either. Is anybody really thinking about this?

I don't get it.
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Stanz » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:06 am

But we're not talking about the economy, and what would you pay for that kind of press?

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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by rfgordon » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:07 am

My neighbor IS the solution--seriously! He's a retired Ghurka officer who works for a company that does, well, interesting work. A couple of years ago they had a contract to "restore order in Haiti." He and his guys are really hoping to get the call from a shipping company.

They would actually let the pirates board the ship, then introduce the Somalis to their kukris. Then one would be set free to spread the word.

They'd also land a Ghurka regiment on land to "dis-encentivize" the locals from further piracy.
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drhulsey
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by drhulsey » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:51 am

skyboltone wrote: ... Is anybody really thinking about this?
I can't imagine it would be too difficult for Navy Seals to disable their boats– or just disable the pirates :twisted:
It would be cheaper for the shipping companies to hire security, but evidently armed ships are searched at every port, causing unsatisfactory delays. Unarmed ships are not searched.
It really seems to be the result of anarchy in a country with no effective government.
A tactical nuke would cure the problem for about 10,000 years :!:
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skyboltone
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by skyboltone » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:21 am

It really is heartening to see the French getting their noses bloodied in this one. And for the first time in three decades at least, there is a Pro American President in FRance. I agree that mercenaries are probably a good idea...no rules of of engagement orders etc. But they have to be hired by somebody other than the US because of the huge pro terrorist cheerleading by the press in most developed countries. I'm just puzzled by the whole thing really.

Our last outing in Somalia did not end well, but there was progress made. The problem as usual were the rules of engagement. The USMC 3/4 sniper teams, for instance, couldn't shoot the leadership of the private armies unless they were weilding a weapon. Who's idea was that? If you can't take out command and control why fight at all? I dunno. It's a mess. Like I say, nobody gives a damn about the African civilian, what few there are, and that's a travesty. One holocost after another but it's only Africans so who cares.

So the current adminestration has, 1) The economy, 2) Iraq, Iran, and Afganistan. 3) Kim Jung Il. and 4) Relatively cheap to deal with Pirates off the horn of Africa. The world awaits Mr. President.

I've yet to spot a good common sense response to any of these admittedly very complex issues. The Indians I believe sunk a mothership a month or so ago. That's a good thing. Just not enough.
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by LeeMo » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:01 am

Explosive ransom money? Pay the savages. False bottom in the case. Tracking electronics in the recesses. When it gets to the mothership, home in on it with a missile. Next problem.

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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by rfgordon » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:45 am

In my government career, I've had opportunities to work with all flavors of US special operators, as well as those from the UK and several non-Commonwealth countries. During Desert Storm I worked with the 92nd Paras of the French Foreign Legion. I can safely say that military capability is not the issue.

The ONLY issue is political will, so don't look to any Western political leaders for that commodity.
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gahult
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by gahult » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:32 pm

One could always hire Steven Segal on as a cook.

Problem solved. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

The mother ships could be surgically removed from the surface of the ocean.
Just go with the 3 S's. Shoot, shovel and shut up. No one would be the wiser when they didn't show up back in port fer breakfast.

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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by CaseyJones » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:50 pm

Yeah, how hard can it be? The "pirates" aren't well armed (in the grand scale of things) and they're not well organized.

The branch of the U.S. military best suited for anti-piracy duties is probably The Coast Guard. Despite jurisdictional issues repelling pirates is roughly similar to dealing with well armed smugglers.

At issue apparently is that the insurance companies are reaming shipping companies on insurance premiums, as a courtesy "we" could station military personnel on cargo ships. That should put downward pressure on insurance premiums. Of course shipping companies can hire their own mercs, that sidesteps the political issues. I can see a loose liason between the Navy and private security forces, the Navy can be in place to help if requested. Private security forces can do as they please, they're out in International waters.

If no one sees a body dumped in International waters, does it make a splash?! :twisted:

It's like leaving a Rottweiler in your condo with an alarm to protect the perimeter.

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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Tubetwang » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:53 pm

In my opinion, the problem lies in the fact that boats are not permited to have arm security personal on board...

I've seen a French documentory of a French war boats patrolling the straight with a flotilla of commercial tankers and what not, staying close to the big gun.

The farthest boat was 30 km away and guess what? They were popped by the pirates...

French boat's Captain sent an helicopter but it arrived too late...there were two Americans (CIA operative don't want to get caught) on board that managed to escape and jumped to sea from the sideline. Helicopter pick them up after they were showered by AK's.

Once these guys are on the boat, it's game over!

Boats use big water hoses as deterrent...Mickey mouse i say...
These 500 N.M. offshore pirates are'nt rookies...They are hungry and have been war trained since birth.


I say change the shipping laws and arm these guys with commandos.

Use said Gurka's...they are short, fast, nimble and easy to hide. Spent a good deal of 1973 in Kathmadhu valley and saw these guys in action. The Nepalese men and women are STRONG! I had to laugh at the these climbers with all their fancy clothing going for Everest and what not, and celebrating on Freak street, all puffed up... The Sherpas carried their luggages up and back with no celebrations. Who's the man?

Or, for more greens, i second Gary on Segal. Man of few words, good with his bare hands, knifes or A.W.
We all have a nice jam once the gig is over!

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Structo
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Structo » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:15 pm

Guess who is arming the pirates?

Big bad China is.

One guy that spoke with anonymity ( he was some sort of op) said China is doing that to draw our forces as a distraction.

One day the sleeping giant will wake.

I believe that they have been flexing their muscles a lot lately.

You don't really think Kim Jong-ll is doing all this missile stuff on his own do you?

And who do you think is helping Iran get plutonium for their nuke?

I heard Giggles the Secretary of Hate the other day talking about this like it's a joke.... :?

All they need to do is have a few SEAL teams out there on a hydrofoil that gets them to where the pirates are hanging out.
Over the side they go and when they surface next to the lifeboat or mothership, end of story.

Like a life boat with a few sand diggers is any kind of problem for those guys. :roll:

We have enough technology to deal with this problem once and for all.

I read where the Somali's still have 18 ships and their crews hostage.

WTF?

Maritime law should prevail. KILL THEM ALL!!!!! :twisted:

As far as Segal, he is a fat out of shape poser.

All you really need is CHUCK NORRIS FOR THE KILL! :D
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!

Tubetwang
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Tubetwang » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:40 pm

Lately China has demanded to be paid in Yuan...

Bold move! They have 2000 trillions in US.

If the dollar stop being the International currency, it will plunge...

I can see them coming for our water reserve...

I'm willing to put out a fight but i'll be out numbered...:roll:

Ho well...

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drhulsey
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by drhulsey » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:23 pm

Tubetwang wrote: ... I'm willing to put out a fight but i'll be out numbered...
Count me in :!: I've got some cases of 762/39's and an AK47, a Ruger Mini 14, and a mean streak :twisted:
Drones aren't cheap, but they can survey areas where satellites pick up suspicious activity. They can also be equipped with missiles 8)
Tim

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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by CaseyJones » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:14 pm

Tubetwang wrote:In my opinion, the problem lies in the fact that boats are not permited to have arm security personal on board...
Say what?! Who is out there to make sure the pirates aren't armed?! :shock:

Frangible 9mm 147 grain subsonic is perfect for use on a ship. It splatters on impact with cargo containers and bulkheads. It also splatters on impact with maritime terrorists. :twisted:
Tubetwang wrote:I'm willing to put out a fight but i'll be out numbered...:roll:
You bring the Jerry Bull hand-me-down 155mm shells, I'll keep you in 7.62-39.

Outnumbered don't mean squat if you got 'em outgunned. :twisted:
I believe in this and it's tested by research...

Tubetwang
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Re: Piracy think tank

Post by Tubetwang » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:23 pm

They invented gun powder...

I'm shure they have more than martial arts and AK's in their doggy bags... :roll:

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