Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

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chief mushroom cloud
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? N

Post by chief mushroom cloud »

ToneMerc wrote:It's all good, thanks for the clarification.

TM
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? N

Post by jaysg »

Lynxtrap wrote:I think the dumble comparison can be traced back to Carlton/Ford, maybe through misunderstandings. As far as I know, Carlton has used at least one of the "Rivera" Fenders, but I'm almost certain it was the Princeton.
I wish I had saved the link...there's a youtube or two where Carlton is using a Twin Reverb II. I want to say it's into a Thiele 1-12", but I'm not sure on that. It sounds like Carlton...what can you say? Paul went on record at least once, explaining that they were going for/influenced by the Robben Ford guitar tones from the late 70's/early 80's. (often Dumble amps)

My C2 is set up as a high plate non-Skyliner, fwiw. When it was stock, I found the absolute best Ch.2 tones with an EV 15L in a front ported cab. The speaker was rolling off a lot of nastiness.

The architecture of the distortion channel leads me to believe that Paul had been into a Dumble or two. Before he went to Fender, he was doing a number of things to pull together a decent living. He did amp repairs, amp mods, pedal mods, his own line of pedals, worked for Mesa for month or two, designed a SS line for Yamaha, did rack switchers and pedal boards. Having a wholesale license, he also sold BBS rims.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Mark »

I want to mention my feelings about the Concert II owned. I bought the amp as it was cheap (second hand) and they did have a good reputation.

I thought it didn't sound too pleasing, and it certainly isn't an amp I regret selling. I did jumper the effects loop to improve the tone of the amp. I blew up the stock Eminence speaker at a gig (I wasn't playing loud either) and replaced it with a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker, the amp also had Groove Tubes in it when they were selling great tubes like RCA black plates etc. These additions helped but not a lot. I found the V30 didn't really have the bass response the amp needed.

I found the clean sound to be acceptable and the reverb was good, but the distorted tones just didn't cut it. I found my RAT pedal into the clean clean channel sounded better, I eventually used a Sansamp set to EVH setting in lieu of the overdrive channel.

Had this amp sounded like a HRM amp or a Bluesmaster it would have been perfect. Mind you I'm not keen on the red knob Twins either, the Zinky Tonemaster to my ear was what the Rivera series should have sounded like. To my ear that was a real step forward for Fender.

As far as the circuit goes these amps have a cascaded preamp like a Dumble but that is where the similarity ended. There were mods kicking around to improve the tone of these amps. I'm told the mods do help these amp along.

I can't but help think these amps didn't help Paul Rivera's own brand.
Last edited by Mark on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Reeltarded wrote:How come these days when I look at gut shots I just see components to strip out for other amps? Let me know if you ever want to get rid of the 2-3w CCs! Love those!! lol
Geeeez Reeltarded, that's Retarded - lol :wink:
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Reeltarded »

Oh, you'd freak out on my parts bin. It's made of amps.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

vibratoking wrote:Yours sounds so heavily modded that it would be very difficult say what it sounds like. How would we compare your one of a kind to anything else?
Yes. Agree. Mostly just wondering about those players and technicians
who do state or write that the Concert II and the Twin Reverb II
offer good platforms to Dumblize.
vibratoking wrote:There is at least one major thread here regarding modding the Concert II into a Dstyle amp. Use the search. The trick to that amp is to jumper the effects loop and use the extra gain stage. I did not enjoy the OD without the jumper. Enjoy!
I will check it out. I have just begun to really "play" these amps.
Again, the builder said nothing about Dumble ~ the Dumble comments
are all over the Internet. But, the amp builder did say he designed
and modified this Concert II so I would not need any pedals. Pretty cool.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Reeltarded wrote:I hear at the speed of light. I noticed a blue shift in tone on the push side of one amp. Turns out the couplers had unequal leads. One was 1.616199 × 10-35 meters longer than the other. Walk the planck.
At the speed of light, one would notice such things as the exact true number of "pi" 8)
different textures of blue shifted towards the push side of tone :roll:
and safetly walking the "planck" :shock:
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

jaysg wrote:That chassis has been through the wars...wow. No labels on the front? I put my Soul-Control in the polarity switch hole. Dual bias...good. It's hard to tell, but it looks like he didn't use the spare half of V5.
All front control knobs are described via metal engraving.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Structo wrote:Phasing of the speakers is a controversial topic.
It's been argued to death at places like The Gear Page.
Personally, I like the cone to move out on the positive wave.
Certain amps invert the output from the input, as do most Dumble style
amps. If you don't hear it then it's no sweat.

To the OP, are those wooden Moj0 knobs on the amp?
Not sure if they are Mojo knobs. I don't like having no/none/zero setting control numbers
or a blank knob. There are too many tone/sound possibilities needed
to be recorded for favorite song tone settings.

Therefore, I changed to black 1-10 skirted knobs . . . .
a picture is posted just before this posting.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Structo wrote:Phasing of the speakers is a controversial topic.
It's been argued to death at places like The Gear Page.
Personally, I like the cone to move out on the positive wave.
Certain amps invert the output from the input, as do most Dumble style amps.
If you don't hear it then it's no sweat.
Regarding the phasing comments, I'm seeking to have speaker cabinets
made with different sized speakers installed. Just today, a custom speaker
cabinet builder emailed the below quote regarding having custom guitar speaker
cabinets built with different sized speakers within the same cabinet:
such as a cabinet with <one 15" and two 10"> speakers
or another speaker cabinet with <one 12" and two 8"> speakers . . . .

Would "phasing" be what he is discussing: "different speakers will
resonate the baffle board at different frequencies" ?????


He suggests having each different sized speaker to be mounted upon
it's own baffle board within the same cabinet . . . .

"the main issue when putting different size speakers on the same baffle
board is that the different speakers will resonate the baffle board at
different frequencies ~ which can cause undesired tones. Best situation
is having different size speakers mounted on their own separate baffle board."

What does anyone think about "speaker phasing" and the possibility
the cabinet maker's comment "speakers will resonate the baffle board at
different frequencies" is about "phasing" ???


Thanks.
Last edited by Toppscore on Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Reeltarded wrote:Oh, you'd freak out on my parts bin. It's made of amps.
Seems like an automobile wrecking yard :shock:
Last edited by Toppscore on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Mark wrote:I want to mention my feelings about the Concert II owned. I bought the amp as it was cheap (second hand) and they did have a good reputation.

I thought it didn't sound too pleasing, and it certainly isn't an amp I regret selling. I did jumper the effects loop to improve the tone of the amp. I blew up the stock Eminence speaker at a gig (I wasn't playing loud either) and replaced it with a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker, the amp also had Groove Tubes in it when they were selling great tubes like RCA black plates etc. These additions helped but not a lot. I found the V30 didn't really have the bass response the amp needed.

I found the clean sound to be acceptable and the reverb was good, but the distorted tones just didn't cut it. I found my RAT pedal into the clean clean channel sounded better, I eventually used a Sansamp set to EVH setting in lieu of the overdrive channel.

Had this amp sounded like a HRM amp or a Bluesmaster it would have been perfect. Mind you I'm not keen on the red knob Twins either, the Zinky Tonemaster to my ear was what the Rivera series should have sounded like. To my ear that was a real step forward for Fender.

As far as the circuit goes these amps have a cascaded preamp like a Dumble but that is where the similarity ended. There were mods kicking around to improve the tone of these amps. I'm told the mods do help these amp along.
I can't but help think these amps didn't help Paul Rivera's own brand.

Did you know the Concert II also shipped as an Amp Head?
My Twin Reverb II is an amp head as well.
Do you feel there may be a difference when modifying an amp head
to play through you personal favorite speaker cabinet?
Or, do the Concert II 1x12 combo and Twin Reverb II 2x12 combo amps'
circuitry provide minimal changes between the amp head and the combo amp?

Personally, if I learned to modifiy an amp towards a Dumble,
I'd think that starting with a true factory amp head would be the way to go.
Versus, discussing the sound and tones from stock Fender combo amp speakers.

What do you think or have exerienced?
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Reeltarded »

Pi? You mean half of Tau?

It's on.
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Bob S »

My understanding ...
"Phasing" of speakers is in regard to whether the cone pushes or pulls when a positive signal is applied.
With multiple speakers in one cabinet, this makes a difference.
You can check this with low voltage dc. Think battery.
If you mix speaker manufacturers it pays to check this out.
With all speakers in phase, the baffle board will add the desired effect.
Closed/Open/Ported cabs all have pros & cons.
I've never mixed speaker sizes in the same cab.
I'd think that the resonant frequency of each size will have an effect, if they are all mounted to the same baffle.
My 2c - Good Luck with the quest.
Bob
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Bob S »

Oh - & 2 Pies = 1 Tau
:lol:
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