Any Wizard owners here?

Marshall Amp Discussion

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tlp123
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Location: Denton, TX, USA

Any Wizard owners here?

Post by tlp123 »

What problems have you had with yours?

Thank you for whatever you choose to share.

....terry
studiodunn
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by studiodunn »

I've owned several Wizards and the only issue I ever had were:

1) the early MKI versions had a popping FS - silly oversight on Ricks part
2) Nothing sounded good next to them. Seriously, almost every HRM sounded congested and over compressed if I played it next to the Wizard
tlp123
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by tlp123 »

studiodunn wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:07 pm I've owned several Wizards and the only issue I ever had were:

1) the early MKI versions had a popping FS - silly oversight on Ricks part
2) Nothing sounded good next to them. Seriously, almost every HRM sounded congested and over compressed if I played it next to the Wizard
Thank you.

My 50W MC1 has a soft crackling noise when I first turn it on. Always goes away in approx 45sec to 1min.

Got it back last year from Rick St Pierre after complete upgrade to 2020 specs. I forgot to mention this to him when I sent it in, and he either didn't catch it or maybe thought it wasn't worth doing anything about?

I've......

Swapped all tubes out one at a time.

Deoxited all pots and jacks.

Gently tapped all live electrical connections.

Can't find the source of the noise.

Hate to send this back out again if it's something I can fix myself. I can live with it just as is if it doesn't degrade any further, but it is a distraction.

I'm ashamed to admit I can't find this, since I've been repairing and servicing high power ground, maritime, and airborne high power RF electronics for over 30 years.

I've got more ideas, but before I start digging further, it'd be great to hear from others here on what they think. I need to post a soundcloud link/file with noise.

I've been really impressed and fascinated with all the knowledge here on this board of hollow state audio electronics. Makes me realize all the things I don't know and haven't thought about it since tech school.
ChopSauce
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by ChopSauce »

tlp123 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:20 pm My 50W MC1 has a soft crackling noise when I first turn it on. Always goes away in approx 45sec to 1min.

Got it back last year from Rick St Pierre after complete upgrade to 2020 specs. I forgot to mention this to him when I sent it in, and he either didn't catch it or maybe thought it wasn't worth doing anything about?
How about: contact him and ask him this exact same question... :?:
El Rey
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by El Rey »

ChopSauce wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:20 pm
tlp123 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:20 pm My 50W MC1 has a soft crackling noise when I first turn it on. Always goes away in approx 45sec to 1min.

Got it back last year from Rick St Pierre after complete upgrade to 2020 specs. I forgot to mention this to him when I sent it in, and he either didn't catch it or maybe thought it wasn't worth doing anything about?
How about: contact him and ask him this exact same question... :?:
Actually, that's the first thing I did 3 different times over a period of 6 months.

No reply..........
studiodunn
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by studiodunn »

El Rey wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:23 pm
ChopSauce wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:20 pm
tlp123 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:20 pm My 50W MC1 has a soft crackling noise when I first turn it on. Always goes away in approx 45sec to 1min.

Got it back last year from Rick St Pierre after complete upgrade to 2020 specs. I forgot to mention this to him when I sent it in, and he either didn't catch it or maybe thought it wasn't worth doing anything about?
How about: contact him and ask him this exact same question... :?:
Actually, that's the first thing I did 3 different times over a period of 6 months.

No reply..........
Yeah, he isn't exactly chatty, or at least not when I've reached out to him.
tlp123
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by tlp123 »

studiodunn wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:53 pm
El Rey wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:23 pm
ChopSauce wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:20 pm

How about: contact him and ask him this exact same question... :?:
Actually, that's the first thing I did 3 different times over a period of 6 months.

No reply..........
Yeah, he isn't exactly chatty, or at least not when I've reached out to him.
I think he's a good guy. Knows his $hit. But, he wears lots of hats. He has explicitly told people he doesn't want others working on his amps, but what I got from him in an email, he isn't spending time as a tech advisor/coach. I sense he doesn't have the patience for it. He indicated that he has tried that route before, and it didn't work, and to send it to him. He'll look at it when he gets the time. That's about all he'll say about it.

I also sense that if one developed a relationship over time he'd help you as long as it didn't take a lot of his time. I'm certain he probably has at least a few of those types of clients.

I believe I will figure the problem out eventually, it will just take time. And in my leisure, I can't get excited about working on it. I'd rather be using it, which I do.

I ask around on these forums because I have stumbled upon good advice in these places before. Good enough to at least narrow the path of possibilities towards a fix.

If I can't find the motivation in myself to keep digging for the solution. I'll just send it to him and let him deal with it. It will cost me, but I'd rather just pay to have it fixed than deal with it myself.
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Reeltarded
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by Reeltarded »

hmm ok

1. thermal expansion at a tube socket connection.. its soft and early.. check all wires at CF tube first.. even pull on them (AMP OFF) one might be near cold-jointed..

2. frittering crackle that subsides can be a plate resistor that hates humidity..

Ideas.
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tlp123
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by tlp123 »

Reeltarded wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:31 am.. check all wires at CF tube first..
Thank you @Reeltarded.

What do you mean CF?
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Reeltarded
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by Reeltarded »

I have not seen the inside of one, but I imagine it has a cathode follower like a typical Marshall. The second tube is a stage and a CF that drives the tone stack.. I fixed two amps in 10 years that were frittering a little at start up that turned out to be a cold joint that would expand and be fine in under 90 seconds.

Check all the preamp tube connections at the sockets. I just predict it's later in the circuit than the first stages because if it's early in the circuit that mild frittering is amplified to be a shower of static noise, more like when a plate resistor is bad-bad. POP POP POP POP POP!! LOUD

I normally start on a frittery amp by pulling on the signal wires at all the preamp tubes hard enough to pull them loose.

It could be something else very similar on the board.. but thermal expansion on the board is going to take an hour, not 60-90 seconds.. make sense?

Good luck. It HAS to be something simple. Another thing would be start the amp with the first tube out. Frittering? Next time, start the amp with the first and second tube pulled. Still frittering? And that will give a clue to where in the circuit we need to focus. You can fix this. :)
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
El Rey
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by El Rey »

Reeltarded wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:25 pm I have not seen the inside of one, but I imagine it has a cathode follower like a typical Marshall. The second tube is a stage and a CF that drives the tone stack.. I fixed two amps in 10 years that were frittering a little at start up that turned out to be a cold joint that would expand and be fine in under 90 seconds.

Check all the preamp tube connections at the sockets. I just predict it's later in the circuit than the first stages because if it's early in the circuit that mild frittering is amplified to be a shower of static noise, more like when a plate resistor is bad-bad. POP POP POP POP POP!! LOUD

I normally start on a frittery amp by pulling on the signal wires at all the preamp tubes hard enough to pull them loose.

It could be something else very similar on the board.. but thermal expansion on the board is going to take an hour, not 60-90 seconds.. make sense?

Good luck. It HAS to be something simple. Another thing would be start the amp with the first tube out. Frittering? Next time, start the amp with the first and second tube pulled. Still frittering? And that will give a clue to where in the circuit we need to focus. You can fix this. :)
Excellent!!

Thank you so much!! That is tremendous help. I will post the fix here when I finally stumble upon it!!
tlp123
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by tlp123 »

Reeltarded wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:25 pm I have not seen the inside of one, but I imagine it has a cathode follower like a typical Marshall. The second tube is a stage and a CF that drives the tone stack.. I fixed two amps in 10 years that were frittering a little at start up that turned out to be a cold joint that would expand and be fine in under 90 seconds.

Check all the preamp tube connections at the sockets. I just predict it's later in the circuit than the first stages because if it's early in the circuit that mild frittering is amplified to be a shower of static noise, more like when a plate resistor is bad-bad. POP POP POP POP POP!! LOUD

I normally start on a frittery amp by pulling on the signal wires at all the preamp tubes hard enough to pull them loose.

It could be something else very similar on the board.. but thermal expansion on the board is going to take an hour, not 60-90 seconds.. make sense?

Good luck. It HAS to be something simple. Another thing would be start the amp with the first tube out. Frittering? Next time, start the amp with the first and second tube pulled. Still frittering? And that will give a clue to where in the circuit we need to focus. You can fix this. :)
I pulled each preamp tube out, one at a time, checking for the noise each time. Put the tube back in, moved to the next, repeat. Noise remains. Finally, pulled all preamp tubes out, left them out them all out. Noise still remains. Swapped each power tube one at a time with known good tube, noise still remains.

Still searching.

I will try to post a video, or at least a sound cloud recording link later.

Thanks for the help so far.

I really appreciate it.
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pompeiisneaks
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by pompeiisneaks »

Well at least you've ruled out all preamp sections. If all tubes including the PI are out but the power tubes are in and you still have noise, it has to be some component after the PI. Otherwise there'd be no source of the noise.

~Phil
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Reeltarded
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by Reeltarded »

with all small tubes out tap around on chassis near pres pot and the NFB wire see if we can get it to fritter short bursts on impact
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El Rey
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Re: Any Wizard owners here?

Post by El Rey »

tlp123 wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:01 pm
Reeltarded wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:25 pm I have not seen the inside of one, but I imagine it has a cathode follower like a typical Marshall. The second tube is a stage and a CF that drives the tone stack.. I fixed two amps in 10 years that were frittering a little at start up that turned out to be a cold joint that would expand and be fine in under 90 seconds.

Check all the preamp tube connections at the sockets. I just predict it's later in the circuit than the first stages because if it's early in the circuit that mild frittering is amplified to be a shower of static noise, more like when a plate resistor is bad-bad. POP POP POP POP POP!! LOUD

I normally start on a frittery amp by pulling on the signal wires at all the preamp tubes hard enough to pull them loose.

It could be something else very similar on the board.. but thermal expansion on the board is going to take an hour, not 60-90 seconds.. make sense?

Good luck. It HAS to be something simple. Another thing would be start the amp with the first tube out. Frittering? Next time, start the amp with the first and second tube pulled. Still frittering? And that will give a clue to where in the circuit we need to focus. You can fix this. :)
I pulled each preamp tube out, one at a time, checking for the noise each time. Put the tube back in, moved to the next, repeat. Noise remains. Finally, pulled all preamp tubes out, left them out them all out. Noise still remains. Swapped each power tube one at a time with known good tube, noise still remains.

Still searching.

I will try to post a video, or at least a sound cloud recording link later.

Thanks for the help so far.

I really appreciate it.
Found it!

This guitar amp humbled me. For a guy that services Aviation and Maritime 3KW transmitters, you'd think I should be able to figure something like this out easy enough!!

Well....it ain't always so!!!

Anyway....after all my aforementioned monkey-motion, I found (what I suppose is, didn't/couldn't look it up on a schematic I don't have just figured from memory) a 1K ohm screen grid resistor (is what I measured 1K ohm) on the RH output valve (pin 4 counting CCW from the socket key) flaking out. The solder connections were very good best I could tell. I blew some freeze-it on (suspected resistor) very carefully (with power off, mind you) quickly hit it with compressed air to get rid of the condensation, and quickly powered up. It RAISED HELL until it warmed up. This was repeatable 5 times in a row. So...I figured f!@& it, just replace on both output valves. I surprisingly happened to have some purple glyptal to paint over the solder connections when I was done. Very old school. This is the first guitar amp I've seen where someone used this. I always keep some, but seldom use it anymore in my line of work.

No more noise!!!

Anyway.....I thank everyone for your help, and reminding me to never be too proud to ask others what they think about things.

Thank you all, I truly appreciate it!!!

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