Marshall Hot Rod diode clipping connection method difference?

[psychepool]

I have a Bogner Ecstasy clone.

It produces a sound that I like well enough, but I was a bit curious and wanted to add diode clipping.

The Jose mode, famous for its diode clipper, is connected like this.

jose.jpg

On the other hand, if you look at the Friedman BE circuit, it is connected like this.

friedman.jpg

In Jose mode, the 10K resistor and capacitor connected to the cathode follower are connected in series to the signal line, whereas in Friedman mode, they are not connected in series to the signal line but are connected to the ground through a diode.

Jose mode has a difference in the connection order of master and EQ, so I think it would be better to choose Friedman's method for my ecstasy-based amp. Are there any differences or advantages or disadvantages to these two connection methods?

Or, if I maintain the structure of placing the master behind the EQ and connect it in the same way as the Jose mode, will there be any difference?

[neskor]

check here

[psychepool]

check here

Thank you very much for sharing the link. That's a really detailed explanation.
If use the hybrid method, I will be able to work without having to change the order of EQ and master volume.

Honestly, I like the sound of both.
In general, I am not a fan of harsh sounds, but when I think about the purpose of this mode, I feel that the Hybrid style is more suitable than the Friedman style. Hybrid is more aggressive.
But if want to work easily, I won't regret choosing the Friedman style.

However, the hybrid style also has 10K/220n connected in series between CF and EQ, but there seems to be no explanation as to whether the presence or absence of this part affects the sound.
We are talking about the difference when diode clipping is turned off.
May be already explained in the video, but I may have missed it because my English skills are not good.
Will 10K/220n connected in series between CF and EQ make a significant difference in sound compared to without it?
To me, the diode clipping mode is a side menu concept that I try out of curiosity, so I would like to apply the modifier as little as possible to change the state of the amplifier I am currently using.

If there is a difference due to the presence or absence of 10K/220n, how about changing the order of 10K and 220n? Is there a difference between 10K -> 220n and 220n -> 10K?
If there is no difference between these two connections, I will think about this method : connect 220n to CF to remove the high DC voltage, and then use the DPDT on-on switch to bypass 10K on the signal line when not use a clipper.
Please give your opinion on this method.

hybrid_style.jpg

[Ray Barbee]

The 220n cap on the Jose mod blocks dc from the CF so there is no DC on the master, which would make the master scratchy, and also put it in parallel with the 100k Rk (for purposes of DC). You have to also realize that the 220n cap is also in series with your tone caps, which DOES slightly change their effective value and the sound of the tone stack.

Personally, if I use a cap to block CF DC, I use 1uf to 2uf in order to minimize any audible affects on the tone stack.

[Reeltarded]

Sorry I somehow miss this everytime.

The Jose setup does change things a bit. It makes the amp more muscular when the Jose volume is moderated to about 7. Nice highs. No more trash.

Add a simple master and also moderate to about 7.. in fact, set everything at 7. Always.

[psychepool]

The 220n cap on the Jose mod blocks dc from the CF so there is no DC on the master, which would make the master scratchy, and also put it in parallel with the 100k Rk (for purposes of DC). You have to also realize that the 220n cap is also in series with your tone caps, which DOES slightly change their effective value and the sound of the tone stack.

Personally, if I use a cap to block CF DC, I use 1uf to 2uf in order to minimize any audible affects on the tone stack.

Sorry I somehow miss this everytime.

The Jose setup does change things a bit. It makes the amp more muscular when the Jose volume is moderated to about 7. Nice highs. No more trash.

Add a simple master and also moderate to about 7.. in fact, set everything at 7. Always.

Thank you for answer. I decided to proceed in Friedman style.
I am just trying this mode out of curiosity, and since I consider the default state to be one in which this mode is not applied, I feel that it is a more correct choice to be in the same state as the original circuit when not engaging the mode.
If I feel additional curiosity after experiencing the results, I will also try Jose style wiring.

If I wire in the Friedman style, do I have to connect 1M resistors to both ends of the Zener diode?
I understand that this resistor is used to simulate the master volume pot of the original Jose mode.
The MPSA06 shown in the Friedman circuit diagram has a 1M resistor. When using other Zener diodes, does the 1M resistor need to be connected?

[Reeltarded]

Actually, let's call this what is really is...

It is the Peavey VT Saturation circuit. lol.. Dave... what a huckster.

YES see that 1M is grounded? Look at the average Jose setup. It shows diodes (or the crippled spider) strapped over the outer lugs of a 1M pot.

When you get bored of that rig, try straight up Jose AND 800 style simple master. Dual master in this setup is the key.

[psychepool]

Actually, let's call this what is really is...

It is the Peavey VT Saturation circuit. lol.. Dave... what a huckster.

YES see that 1M is grounded? Look at the average Jose setup. It shows diodes (or the crippled spider) strapped over the outer lugs of a 1M pot.

When you get bored of that rig, try straight up Jose AND 800 style simple master. Dual master in this setup is the key.

Yes, I think all pedal builders and amp builders can be considered hucksters in a broad sense.
I, too, was very surprised when I first found out that the Mesa Dual Rectifier's preamp circuit was basically 98% identical to the Soldano Slo.

I believe that progress in any field occurs when someone's ideas are combined with other people's ideas. I think it's a happy thing for non-experts like me to just enjoy the results of their ideas.

I completely agree that dual master volumes would add real usefulness and convenience to this mode, but unfortunately, there is no room for a pot in my amp anymore.
The functions were simplified to make it small, and separate gain/volume pots for the blue and red channels were omitted and integrated into one, so adding an additional volume pot would cause confusion in the amplifier.

xtc_01.jpg

xtc_02.jpg

xtc_03.jpg

xtc_04.jpg

I want to work on it quickly because I'm curious about the results, but I don't have enough time and I have other amplifiers in the works, so it will take some time to test it. I want to work on it quickly!

[Reeltarded]

Dood! I couldn't get all those parts in a BOX THAT SIZE!! LOL

I hear you! It's all fun stuff.