Gibson settles with DOJ

[M Fowler]

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/Augu ... d-976.html

Gibson said it didn't want to spend millions more to defend to prove they did nothing wrong.

[Reeltarded]

Sad

[mhartman]

That will teach them! So glad that our Gov't is focusing on such important issues...

[M Fowler]

Yeah the government could keep our money in the USA and lower our taxes and quit going after US businesses.

On the Youtube video Gibson said during the hearings the government said move your company out of the USA! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unw3YTFa ... re=related

[Reeltarded]

Yep. Sure did. I'd like the government to move the eff out. Outsource them to kind gentlemen from India.

[Scumback Speakers]

Sheesh, I guess I'll have to keep a provenance of every old guitar I own to make sure it's "pre Gibson raid" legal wood.

But unemployment is at..what...8.2% nationally, and in California it's at 12% in LA County, and higher elsewhere.

Yep, what we need to focus on is whether some slimeball in a foreign country lied to Gibson about some fingerboard wood origins and fine Gibson for their actions of buying that wood.

That'll keep the government lawyers employed....sheesh.

[passfan]

So Gibson is the victim here now ? Am I the only one who read the article all the way to the bottom or am I missing something here ? Gibson admitted their representative toured the country and was informed the export was illegal in its present state due to a law passed in 2006. That rep returned to Gibson USA and informed management of the law. Gibson then continued to purchase even as they knew they were in violation and they're the victim here ?

[Firestorm]

So Gibson is the victim here now ? Am I the only one who read the article all the way to the bottom or am I missing something here ? Gibson admitted their representative toured the country and was informed the export was illegal in its present state due to a law passed in 2006. That rep returned to Gibson USA and informed management of the law. Gibson then continued to purchase even as they knew they were in violation and they're the victim here ?

The 2006 law (passed in Madagascar) applied only to Gibson's supplier. The 2008 extension of the Lacey Act criminalized posession of certain wood even if purchased from a CITES-certified vendor, even if presented by the vendor as being a legal product. Gibson ran afoul of an unconstitutionally vague law that violates due process and was selectively enforced. So yes, they are the victim here. As are we all.

[NickC]

A business associate of mine (CPA) has a saying: The I.R.S. makes liars out of all of us.

Point being, politicians continue to enact so much "law", with so little common-sense (and complete disregard for the Constitution), that eventually we'll all be guilty of something in the eyes of the "law"(if not already).

Case in point: People are being prosecuted for channeling rain-water run-off into ponds on their own land. Sometimes the regulatory agencies are deeming it navigable waterways and requiring onerous concessions, permits, and licensing. Other times (depending on the State) the authorities claim that water is community property and no one is allowed to "hoard" it in a pond on their property. Ridiculous!

[NickC]

So Gibson is the victim here now ? Am I the only one who read the article all the way to the bottom or am I missing something here ? Gibson admitted their representative toured the country and was informed the export was illegal in its present state due to a law passed in 2006. That rep returned to Gibson USA and informed management of the law. Gibson then continued to purchase even as they knew they were in violation and they're the victim here ?

The 2006 law (passed in Madagascar) applied only to Gibson's supplier. The 2008 extension of the Lacey Act criminalized posession of certain wood even if purchased from a CITES-certified vendor, even if presented by the vendor as being a legal product. Gibson ran afoul of an unconstitutionally vague law that violates due process and was selectively enforced. So yes, they are the victim here. As are we all.

+1

[Deric]

I think that what the government has done here is BS. Unfortunately, almost everything I've heard come out of Henry's mouth is BS too. Frankly, I don't believe either of them.

On the Youtube video Gibson said during the hearings the government said move your company out of the USA! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unw3YTFa ... re=related

In the video, Henry claims that is what the government said. He also says that the government is confiscating every guitar going across boarders. I call bullshit.

[Teleguy61]

In the video, Henry claims that is what the government said. He also says that the government is confiscating every guitar going across boarders. I call bullshit.

I agree doc. This is a bizarre case for sure, but Henry is weird and Gibson is not blameless. Don't get me wrong, neither is the gov.
Talk about waste of resources-wood, guitars, taxpayers money, oxygen that all these guys used up spouting their bullshit.

[rdjones]

So Gibson is the victim here now ? Am I the only one who read the article all the way to the bottom or am I missing something here ? Gibson admitted their representative toured the country and was informed the export was illegal in its present state due to a law passed in 2006. That rep returned to Gibson USA and informed management of the law. Gibson then continued to purchase even as they knew they were in violation and they're the victim here ?

The 2006 law (passed in Madagascar) applied only to Gibson's supplier. The 2008 extension of the Lacey Act criminalized posession of certain wood even if purchased from a CITES-certified vendor, even if presented by the vendor as being a legal product. Gibson ran afoul of an unconstitutionally vague law that violates due process and was selectively enforced. So yes, they are the victim here. As are we all.

I like Ebony fingerboards.

I don't know that Gibson is the "victim" here, but the manner in which the enforcement was conducted was quite heavy handed.
At the very least Gibson was made an example of, and it was an easy bust for DOJ.
The Justice article seems to be slanted against the criminal as one might expect.
My impression is that Gibson is now obligated to act as enforcement for a law enacted by a foreign government.
The part that gets me is that the violation is not based on where the wood is being sourced, but rather where it is being "finished".

rd

[Firestorm]

The part that gets me is that the violation is not based on where the wood is being sourced, but rather where it is being "finished".

Imagine what would happen if Canada decided to restrict the export of pine to finished products. Would you no longer be able to buy frame-grade studs and have to buy the whole house instead? What constitutes a finished 2x4? Or a finished fingerboard BLANK?

It is that ill-defined and changing interpretation that renders this law unenforceable (at least with respect to the US Constitution). I understand that it is not Gibson's job to spend their treasure defending our liberties, but I wish they had stuck to their guns.

[cbass]

They say "Don't step off the sidewalk and don't cross over the Line"
You can say what you want.We are all criminals here.