Tube rolling with the Rocket?

[Mark]

I have a selection of good NOS valves to use. I'm wishing to use them in a Marshall 1959 and my Rocket clone.

I realise that there are certain valves which you would put in certain positions. It seems obvious to me that a small plate valve would be good in the V1 position of a high gain amp so microphonics aren't an issue, large plate are good for cathode followers and PI stages. Have a look at them and please let me know your thoughts?

Here are the contenders.

[img:766:1024]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/ ... 7eacec.jpg[/img]
[img:766:1024]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/ ... 656277.jpg[/img]
[img:766:1024]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/ ... 418a6d.jpg[/img]
[img:766:1024]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/ ... c46840.jpg[/img]
[img:766:1024]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/ ... 8574c0.jpg[/img]
[img:766:1024]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/ ... 5bc511.jpg[/img]

[matt h]

(deleted)

[Mark]

Thanks for your reply Matt

Good point about cathode follower protection. The components could easily be mounted on the valve socket itself.

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/dccf.html

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/accf.html

Any thoughts about the valves themselves?

[Mark]

I thought I'd asked the question about tubes before, here is the link.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ght=rocket

I found I really like the GE tubes, they sounded great in the 5Y1 clone.

The irony is I didn't really care for the Amperex tube and it was strongly recommended, though it does have made in India stamped on it.

I preferred the first tube to the Amperex, it does look identical to Amperex tubes on Ebay.

[cbass]

I thought I'd asked the question about tubes before, here is the link.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ght=rocket

I found I really like the GE tubes, they sounded great in the 5Y1 clone.

The irony is I didn't really care for the Amperex tube and it was strongly recommended, though it does have made in India stamped on it.

I preferred the first tube to the Amperex, it does look identical to Amperex tubes on Ebay.

That first tube at the top looks like a sylvania

[Clyde]

GE, going by the frosted printing-could be re-labeled.

[ampgeek]

Nice looking stable to choose from mate!

Correct me if I am wrong...but...aren't long plate variants, generally, preferable in the V1 position due to their innate mechanical stability/resistance to microphonic vibration? Greater masses are harder to get "moving" all else being equal.

Of course, once they do get moving they are harder to stop...so....I may have that backwards.

Good luck,
Dave O.

[cbass]

My findings from a small stash of a hundred or so tubes is that long plates are definitely more microphonic but a lot of them will work in V1 on an amp like the rocket not so much for an express.
I typically think LP's sound better

[Mark]

Thanks for your assistance, I really appreciate you taking the the time to assist me.

I agree there is more to knowing the tubes then the labeling on them.

I thought I'd add all the 12AX7's sounded better than this tube, which is an EI made on Telefunken tooling I'm told.

[img766]http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/ ... 87038b.jpg[/img]

[cbass]

looks like ei I like em if you can find a good one
So wich ones do you like?

[Mark]

Thanks for the reply CBass.

Valves 1, 2, 3, went into the Marshall, they sounded better than the two EI's these EI are good in that they aren't microphonic, they sound a bit dry to my ear in the Marshall and the selected valves have nicer mids and highs.

I've saved 4, 5, 6 for the Rocket.

[Turbojunkie]

Hi Mark,
I've never tried an India made Amperex, but FWIW, I do have 2 Canada made & 2 Holland(Herleen factory) made. Both types look exactly the same as yours internally...the only visual difference between my 2 pairs is with the seam on the top of the tubes...both types have top seams, but it's much more pronounced on the Dutch ones. I have no idea why (maybe the quality of the raw materials used?) but the Made in Holland ones are far better sounding than the Canadians...much more interesting and complex, greater note separation/clarity...way more "alive" if that makes sense...the Canadian ones certainly don't sound bad, but they couldn't compete with the Dutch...did some blind testing with friends, everyone unanimously thought that the Holland built ones sounded far superior...I really like Blackburn factory Mullards too, but they're a bit softer on the high end...I love the extra sparkle/shimmer that the Dutch Amperex ones have...it's a HUGE gut-check to dish out the cash for 'em, but if you really want to get your Rocket sounding as good as possible.....Adam

[Mark]

Thanks for the advice Adam, where did you get your Amperex tubes from, I've noticed quite a few eBay sellers, but I'm wondering how much life these tubes still have in them?

What did you settle on for output tubes, these amps run the output stage so hard you have to wonder if the more expensive output tubes are worth it.

What did you use for the rectifier tube, this is another one with a heavy load. I have a Mullard rectifier, but not the four notch rectifier. So far I haven't heard the difference between the Chinese rectifier and the Mullard.

Oh yeah, have you found the amp to be reliable?

[Turbojunkie]

Hi Mark,
I was cleaning up some email accounts this weekend and came across this, don't know how I missed your last thread post here with questions back in April...
I love to compare notes and talk gear, so certainly wasn't ignoring you! I pre-apologize for getting SOOO long-winded when replying here, but when I can't play guitar for any reason (like now, when wife is nursing a cold for a few days), then shooting-the-shit about guitar is how I get my fix!

Any new findings for you since then with tube rolling your Rocket?

On the questions:
I asked a few friends years ago where to get NOS tubes, and got pointed towards Gregg @ Hi Test, and have had very good experiences...They "warned" he was on the expensive side, but you could trust that what he sold you would be 100% legit "brand new" old-stock if he said it was, and that he was extremely knowledgeable when choosing (and testing) tubes for guitar amps specifically, where broader tube guys out there might favor the Hi-Fi end of things with their stock and or knowledge.
Gregg certainly has deep knowledge about all the different tube guitar amp topologies, but seems to have a special love for EL84-powered AC30/Rocket/Liverpool rigs, so I always enjoy the discussions with him and learn many new things each time I talk to him.
For other tube sources, I've heard good things about KCA, Doug's, Vintage Tube Service, Tejas Tubes, and some others... but comparing prices, Hi-Test is in the same range, often cheaper...I just stick to Gregg because of such positive past experiences, he has always seemed keen to help and give me tips/advice on tone even outside just the subject of tubes. I'm loyal to businesses when I'm very happy with the service even if the cost does end up being a little higher.
If a person wants to dip their toes in the NOS tube waters because of the costs, then trying Terry Kilgore (aka "Sgt. Overdrive") is an option, a lot of his stuff is used/pulled but with good life and priced accordingly from what I understand.
On this subject of tubes in general, I would like to say that I'm not a "tube snob", I completely understand those who are weary or even unwilling to spend the $$ for NOS tubes! For me, the factors are:
If you love to have a great variety of gear to choose to play, than it just gets ridiculous to try to NOS tube all of your amps. It's awesome to have lots of different guitars, amps, effects, speaker cabs to choose from day to day, LOTS of areas of guitar tone to spread the cash out for...and the other big factor to me is how special a particular guitar amp is to a person. While NOS tubes have always offered some sort of improvement in my amps when utilized, plenty of these amps don't show nearly as drastic of an improvement with NOS glass as others...out of the 25+ amps I've owned over 20 years, the Rocket I have is only the 3rd one I consider special enough and sensitive enough to tube choices to me to deserve fully going down the NOS road for fine tuning to full potential.

I have to run errands and get some cold meds for the wife right now, but will share any & all experiences I've had with Rocket Output Tubes, Rectifiers, reliability, etc. later on here if you're still interested Mark....

Hope all is well!
Adam

[jkey04]

After tube rolling in the two Rockets that I have built, I found that i liked the Sovtek 5751 in V1 the best. Don't get me wrong, the NOS Amperex was very nice, but the i like the headroom, chime and bloom that the 5751 added. It had a smoother quality that the 12AX7s that i tried (which included Ruby, Sovtek, NOS Amperex, NOS RCA, and JJ 12AX7 & 5751).

All of these tubes sounded good and were more than usable. I just preferred the new production Sovtek 5751 in V1. It brings out the best in single coils!!

My 2 cents.