Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
- RJ Guitars
- Posts: 2662
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:49 am
- Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
- Contact:
Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
Hello TAG members,
I have sent in my original Grey End Bell A-3801 to Mercury Magnetics to be cloned and then the original rebuilt. They were quite enthusiastic about this project and have given me a decent price (especially for a MM tranny) for the iron clones. They will look very much a like the Stancor except the end bells will have a gray Hammertone finish - a little retro with some MM flavor.
First they evaluated my tranny and verified it was a good unit... not sure how they do that but that was the report they gave. Next they will disassemble and blueprint the original in order to clone it. Once that is accomplished they will rebuild my original as well as create clones.
I'll post the donor tranny now and clone pictures as they become available. I will make the clones available at cost for anybody that wants to pre-order one before I add them to my regular web offerings. Delivery of the first clones is expected in approximately 2 weeks. Send me an email and mention part # rj-3801-TAG if you want to be be on the beta test list.
Once I get this I will make up a spread sheet to compare the various Wreck output trannies I have around here. I've also got a bench test Wreck platform in development that will let me do a quick swap on the output trannies while leaving the rest of the circuit identical. This should provide a very good direct comparison of the trannies.
Look for updates along the way.
rj
I have sent in my original Grey End Bell A-3801 to Mercury Magnetics to be cloned and then the original rebuilt. They were quite enthusiastic about this project and have given me a decent price (especially for a MM tranny) for the iron clones. They will look very much a like the Stancor except the end bells will have a gray Hammertone finish - a little retro with some MM flavor.
First they evaluated my tranny and verified it was a good unit... not sure how they do that but that was the report they gave. Next they will disassemble and blueprint the original in order to clone it. Once that is accomplished they will rebuild my original as well as create clones.
I'll post the donor tranny now and clone pictures as they become available. I will make the clones available at cost for anybody that wants to pre-order one before I add them to my regular web offerings. Delivery of the first clones is expected in approximately 2 weeks. Send me an email and mention part # rj-3801-TAG if you want to be be on the beta test list.
Once I get this I will make up a spread sheet to compare the various Wreck output trannies I have around here. I've also got a bench test Wreck platform in development that will let me do a quick swap on the output trannies while leaving the rest of the circuit identical. This should provide a very good direct comparison of the trannies.
Look for updates along the way.
rj
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Good, Fast, or Cheap -- Pick two...
http://www.rjguitars.net
http://www.rjaudioresearch.com/
http://diyguitaramps.prophpbb.com/
http://www.rjguitars.net
http://www.rjaudioresearch.com/
http://diyguitaramps.prophpbb.com/
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
I'd imagine they'd check for shorted turns on the coils and make sure the magnetic core is in good shape, which is to say the laminations haven't shorted out.
If there is more to it, I'd love to know.
If there is more to it, I'd love to know.
Yours Sincerely
Mark Abbott
Mark Abbott
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
Very interesting project. Now we have pacific selling the OEM transformer and MM will clone the Stancor. Seems like now that we have the transformer we no longer have Mallory TC series and Mallory PVCs, vector boards or flea clips and all of this are part of the sound.
Oh well!!
Oh well!!
- RJ Guitars
- Posts: 2662
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:49 am
- Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
- Contact:
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
I have enough of those very OEM parts to actually build the test platform to verify if the differences in the transformers are significant aside from those other original components themselves... if it's audible, it's measurable and quantifiable... not saying that's easy to do, just possible.
What we don t have Is Ken Fischer pulling the levers behind the curtain. His genius was using what was readily available at the time.... including cheap generic unspectacular Stancor output transformers... if he were here today, he would no doubt embarrass us by building something that sounds awesome using modern components ... maybe while muttering under his breath about the days of Vectorbord, Flea Clips, and those old flimsy Bud boxes...
As far as the Pacific official part number stuff... same iron we've been using but now available with a new label... I'll include one of them in the head to head comparison.
What we don t have Is Ken Fischer pulling the levers behind the curtain. His genius was using what was readily available at the time.... including cheap generic unspectacular Stancor output transformers... if he were here today, he would no doubt embarrass us by building something that sounds awesome using modern components ... maybe while muttering under his breath about the days of Vectorbord, Flea Clips, and those old flimsy Bud boxes...
As far as the Pacific official part number stuff... same iron we've been using but now available with a new label... I'll include one of them in the head to head comparison.
Good, Fast, or Cheap -- Pick two...
http://www.rjguitars.net
http://www.rjaudioresearch.com/
http://diyguitaramps.prophpbb.com/
http://www.rjguitars.net
http://www.rjaudioresearch.com/
http://diyguitaramps.prophpbb.com/
- martin manning
- Posts: 13375
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:43 am
- Location: 39°06' N 84°30' W
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
Very cool project rj. Looking forward to hearing more as it progresses.
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
I hope you have a written agreement of exclusive on this.
John
John
Do not limit yourself to what others think is reasonable or possible.
www.johnchristou.com
www.johnchristou.com
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
The Komet amp used Mallory 150's, the 6PS caps are suppose to be similar to the Mallory PVC's. Who is to say the Mallory PVC caps are the caps for these amps?
Dumble didn't use Mallory's and no one complains about them.
Garolite is better material than the vector board, though the flea clips are easier to work with than the large turrets. The small turrets would allow a tighter, firmer connection with the component.
Getting back on topic, perhaps if it isn't too much to ask, RJ could do some clips of both transformers?
Brian Wallace's Express transformer enjoys a good reputation too. It would be good to see how the Mercury transformer compares to BW's Heyboer. I have a Heyboer slated for an Express build, so there is some personal interest in this.
Dumble didn't use Mallory's and no one complains about them.
Garolite is better material than the vector board, though the flea clips are easier to work with than the large turrets. The small turrets would allow a tighter, firmer connection with the component.
Getting back on topic, perhaps if it isn't too much to ask, RJ could do some clips of both transformers?
Brian Wallace's Express transformer enjoys a good reputation too. It would be good to see how the Mercury transformer compares to BW's Heyboer. I have a Heyboer slated for an Express build, so there is some personal interest in this.
Yours Sincerely
Mark Abbott
Mark Abbott
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
Damned debug mode message!
Yours Sincerely
Mark Abbott
Mark Abbott
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
Very cool rj and now the Trainwreck guys should stop complaining about transformer sources, well maybe.
Trying to build with unobtainable parts is foolish get into the current century and build with what you have laying around. Too many questions that have all been repeated so many times it's like an echo on TAG.
Trying to build with unobtainable parts is foolish get into the current century and build with what you have laying around. Too many questions that have all been repeated so many times it's like an echo on TAG.
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
I agree Mark. I had a friend build an Express with Traynor iron with decent results sans difficulty getting any clean.
- RJ Guitars
- Posts: 2662
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:49 am
- Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
- Contact:
TRIAD S-60A output transformer
Well of course you knew I would be easily persuaded to join on on this rant -- Ken would have built it with whatever he had -- and I am a clone school drop out. But I do have respect for those that can do it... and they did a great job of documenting the original the Trainwreck formula, for which I am extremely gratetful... but that's not my topic for today.
Does anyone know anything about the TRIAD S-60A output transformer? It appears to be about the same vintage and suspiciously similar to the Stancor A-3801. They even have the 250 and 500 ohm taps... I took a couple of them on trade and they will be included in my OT comparison tests once I get the new MM A-3801 clones in.
At this point I have 4 guys that want one of the new MM clones as beta testers... one funny they even have the 500 Ohm and hing is that 2 of them don't plan to use it for a Wreck clone...
Does anyone know anything about the TRIAD S-60A output transformer? It appears to be about the same vintage and suspiciously similar to the Stancor A-3801. They even have the 250 and 500 ohm taps... I took a couple of them on trade and they will be included in my OT comparison tests once I get the new MM A-3801 clones in.
At this point I have 4 guys that want one of the new MM clones as beta testers... one funny they even have the 500 Ohm and hing is that 2 of them don't plan to use it for a Wreck clone...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Good, Fast, or Cheap -- Pick two...
http://www.rjguitars.net
http://www.rjaudioresearch.com/
http://diyguitaramps.prophpbb.com/
http://www.rjguitars.net
http://www.rjaudioresearch.com/
http://diyguitaramps.prophpbb.com/
Re: TRIAD S-60A output transformer
Hey that opt looks familiar.RJ Guitars wrote:Well of course you knew I would be easily persuaded to join on on this rant -- Ken would have built it with whatever he had -- and I am a clone school drop out. But I do have respect for those that can do it... and they did a great job of documenting the original the Trainwreck formula, for which I am extremely gratetful... but that's not my topic for today.
Does anyone know anything about the TRIAD S-60A output transformer? It appears to be about the same vintage and suspiciously similar to the Stancor A-3801. They even have the 250 and 500 ohm taps... I took a couple of them on trade and they will be included in my OT comparison tests once I get the new MM A-3801 clones in.
At this point I have 4 guys that want one of the new MM clones as beta testers... one funny they even have the 500 Ohm and hing is that 2 of them don't plan to use it for a Wreck clone...
My understanding is that they were both made by Chicago Standard and stamped with different names. I have a Triad spec sheet that shows the Triad and Stancors with exact same specs.
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
To me the idea of coming to the amp garage and building a trainwreck style amp is to build it as CLOSE to the original ken Fischer built trainwrecks. A clone? that doesn't exist in the amp world, but an amp that proudly can be in the ballpark of originals.
I appreciate your effort RJ to get a good clone of the Stancor OT.
To me, tranformers, tubes, capacitors, the board with flea clips and the CORRECT lead dress are what make this amps what they are.
That is MY own experience.
Happy Easter amp garage members!!
I appreciate your effort RJ to get a good clone of the Stancor OT.
To me, tranformers, tubes, capacitors, the board with flea clips and the CORRECT lead dress are what make this amps what they are.
That is MY own experience.
Happy Easter amp garage members!!
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
I have a black bell cover Stancor OT and funny thing here, I talked with the Pacific guy that posted here a while back about making a clone of this. He is an interesting guy, nuff said, but he told me - after checking with his 'people' - that Pacific was not interested in cloning this OT. Frankly, I think it is rather interesting the MM is taking this on. Certainly MM has all the variety in trannys that one could imagine. I would be curious to hear the results, RJ.
Redshark, um, don't say the Mallory PVC caps are not available because I do have sets for sale. Just saying.
Redshark, um, don't say the Mallory PVC caps are not available because I do have sets for sale. Just saying.
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: Grey Bell Stancor A-3801 clone by Mercury Magnetics
Yeah I had sold most of mine too, only have a few left.Redshark, um, don't say the Mallory PVC caps are not available because I do have sets for sale. Just saying.