Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

[Toppscore]

[quote="rdjones] Two Rock and Fuchs are the two that I read about most often being compared to Dumble, but I've never played through a real Dumble to be able to say. I have played through every Rivera era Fender, own (or owed) several and have some experience recording with a stock '83 Concert 112. (I was a Fender dealer during the Rivera era)
The official names for these amps are "Concert 112", "Concert 210", "Concert 410", and "Concert Top". The "II" never appeared on any amp, in the catalog or on the schematic. I can agree with numerous accounts that say the clean channel is great and that while the lead channel has plenty of gain the sound character is not inspiring. I have no doubt that it's a good mod platform if done properly.[/quote]

Yes, REJones. I've also noticed that some of the Paul Rivera Amps
are not labled "II". Most refer to the P.Riveras from 1983-1986 as
Fender II amps. The Concert II does not have the "II" on the faceplate
as the Twin Reverb II does have the "II".

From Wiki: The Fender-II Series amplifiers were produced from 1982 until 1986, being the last Fender amps to be made at Fullerton. The specifications for these amplifiers, and leadership of the design team, came from Paul Rivera (then marketing director) and are known as "Fender Rivera Era" amplifiers. Some Rivera Era amplifiers within the series used the "II" moniker such as the Deluxe Reverb II and Twin Reverb II, while others such as the Concert and Super Champ did not. Many of these amps had the normal Fender clean sound and in addition a switchable mid voiced gain channel, designed to compete with the Mesa Boogie Mark Series series amps that had gained popularity at the time.

Hope this helps some forum readers.

[Toppscore]

... rare 1964 6G6B Blackface Tuxedo Bassman w/Presence
. . . . . one of the last Blonde ~ Black-Tolex Bassman amps produced.

[ I'm not sure I know what "Tuxedo" means.
If it's a 6G6B it's not a Blackface, regardless of the color of the faceplate.
Technically it's a Blond or Brownface circuit in a black cabinet.
Are you sure the cabinet covering is original? rd

Pictured Below: 1964 Tuxedo'd Black Tolex'ed 6G6B Blonde Bassman amp.
The chassis, cabinet and circuitry are Blonde.
The Tolex is Black w/White control knobs on a Blackface faceplate,
giving this rare 1964 Bassman a "Tuxedo" appearance.

1964 Fender Blonde 6G6B Bassman
Serial Number BP11922 of 12000 total.
It's estimated that only 200 of the Tuxedo'd Black Tolex cabinet versions
of the 6G6B Blonde chassis/circuitry Bassmans were produced/shipped.

IMHO, Fender depleted supplies of Blonde Tolex material as Fender closed
towards introducing the 1964 Blackface-Black Tolex AA864 Bassman amps.
Fender didn't order more Blonde Tolex because it had inventory stock
of Black Tolex as many other Blackface Fender amps had been shipping
with Black Tolex since late October 1963 (Super Reverb).
Therefore, Fender applied the Black Tolex covering onto the Blonde 6G6B Bassmans
until the 1964 Blackface Bassmans were introduced during August 1964.

The 1964 Tuxedo 6G4B Bassman also has seven (7) control knobs w/"Presence" control,
while the newly introduced 1964 Blackface AA864 Bassmans lost the "Presence" control
circuitry and therefore shipped with only six (6) control knobs.

Hope this info helps. I think vingage amp history is real cool stuff.

I truly hope to know/understand Dumble/Trainwreck amps
as I do the Fender Tweed/Brown/Blonde/Black & Silverface amps.

And, hopefully study Alexander Howard Dumble and Ken Fischer
as well as Bruce Zinky, Paul Rivera and Leo Fender

[Toppscore]

Why did Bruce Zinky leave Fender?

Shows ya how much I know, I thought he was still there. reddog

Checking up with Wiki on Bruce Zinky: After leaving Fender, he began marketing the Smokey Amp - a tiny, but powerful amplifier so called because it was made to fit in a cigarette pack. With this success, he went on to market a line of amplifiers under his own name. He revealed a new line called Supro, based on a 1960s trademark, at the 2005 NAMM Show in Anaheim, California. Bruce was interviewed for the NAMM Oral History Program in 2010 in which he spoke about the early days of his career in the music industry.

[jaysg]

Do you feel there may be a difference when modifying an amp head to play through you personal favorite speaker cabinet?
Or, do the Concert II 1x12 combo and Twin Reverb II 2x12 combo amps'
circuitry provide minimal changes between the amp head and the combo amp?

I think there's a question there -- The only differences between Head models and combo models had to do with the OT secondary. Both amps were done with 2/4/8 ohm transformers. The Concert 1-12" was set up for 8 ohms and if you add another cabinet, the Ext. switch flips it to 4 ohms. The unused tap is soldered to an eyelet on the board. So Concert 2-10" was 4 & 2, as was the Twin II combo. I don't know about the Twin II head....could have been 8/4 or 4/2.

[Mark]

Did you know the Concert II also shipped as an Amp Head?
My Twin Reverb II is an amp head as well.
Do you feel there may be a difference when modifying an amp head
to play through you personal favorite speaker cabinet?
Or, do the Concert II 1x12 combo and Twin Reverb II 2x12 combo amps'
circuitry provide minimal changes between the amp head and the combo amp?

Personally, if I learned to modifiy an amp towards a Dumble,
I'd think that starting with a true factory amp head would be the way to go.
Versus, discussing the sound and tones from stock Fender combo amp speakers.

I seem to remember the Concert amps coming out in a few different configurations, there was the 1 X 12", the 2 X 10", 4 X 10" and the head. I remember liking the 4 X 10' the best, this combination had the bass content the 12" had with the 10" charm. I remember the 2 X 10" lacking bass response. I liked the original speaker over the Celestion Vintage 30 as it had more bass and highs.

I think the speaker I should have used was the Celestion 65 watter. It wouldn't have helped the distortion characteristics, but to my ear the amp would have sounded more balanced.

The important thing is do you enjoy your amp the way it is?

I have an 18 watt Marshall clone that is a reference point for me. I like it a lot and use it when evaluating an amp or mod.

[Toppscore]

Did you know the Concert II also shipped as an Amp Head?
My Twin Reverb II is an amp head as well.
Do you feel there may be a difference when modifying an amp head
to play through you personal favorite speaker cabinet?
Or, do the Concert II 1x12 combo and Twin Reverb II 2x12 combo amps'
circuitry provide minimal changes between the amp head and the combo amp?

Personally, if I learned to modifiy an amp towards a Dumble,
I'd think that starting with a true factory amp head would be the way to go.
Versus, discussing the sound and tones from stock Fender combo amp speakers.

I seem to remember the Concert amps coming out in a few different configurations, there was the 1 X 12", the 2 X 10", 4 X 10" and the head. I remember liking the 4 X 10' the best, this combination had the bass content the 12" had with the 10" charm. I remember the 2 X 10" lacking bass response. I liked the original speaker over the Celestion Vintage 30 as it had more bass and highs.

I think the speaker I should have used was the Celestion 65 watter. It wouldn't have helped the distortion characteristics, but to my ear the amp would have sounded more balanced.

The important thing is do you enjoy your amp the way it is?

I have an 18 watt Marshall clone that is a reference point for me. I like it a lot and use it when evaluating an amp or mod.

I constantly watch the market for the 1982-1986 Rivera Concert-II amps.
I've only seen amp-heads and the 1x12 combo amp as mine is.

The 2x10 & 4x10 combos must be real good amps,
real rare amps and real hard to let go of

And, we are talking about the 1982-1986 Rivera Fender Concert-II amps,
in the 2x10 & 4x10 configurations, Right?

NOT the 1990s Fender Concerts or Bruce Zinky Concerts, Right?

[Toppscore]

Do you feel there may be a difference when modifying an amp head to play through you personal favorite speaker cabinet?
Or, do the Concert II 1x12 combo and Twin Reverb II 2x12 combo amps'
circuitry provide minimal changes between the amp head and the combo amp?

I think there's a question there -- The only differences between Head models and combo models had to do with the OT secondary. Both amps were done with 2/4/8 ohm transformers. The Concert 1-12" was set up for 8 ohms and if you add another cabinet, the Ext. switch flips it to 4 ohms. The unused tap is soldered to an eyelet on the board. So Concert 2-10" was 4 & 2, as was the Twin II combo. I don't know about the Twin II head....could have been 8/4 or 4/2.

Thank you. Good to know. The switchable ohm output features are cool.
Also, amps with the Hi/Low power switch or 100w/60w/30w options are nice.

[Mark]

These were Rivera amps. I remember them quite clearly as it was the same time the 57 and 62 re-issue Strats turned up, Fender was in the process of being sold by CBS.

Given Fender is a money making machine this doesn't speak too highly of the CBS management. Mind you, I'm sure they all got a bonus.

[Toppscore]

These were Rivera amps. I remember them quite clearly as it was the same time the 57 and 62 re-issue Strats turned up, Fender was in the process of being sold by CBS.

Given Fender is a money making machine this doesn't speak too highly of the CBS management. Mind you, I'm sure they all got a bonus.

Good to know. Thank you.
I'd love to hear/play the Concert-II 2x12 and 4x10 combo amps.

Got my hands full with my highly modded Concert-II 1x12 amp.
I really did not purchase it because of the Paul Rivera Fender-II
connection, status or sounds/tones. I purchased my amp because
of the trememdous amount or well designed modifications and the
management of the NFB signal, among many other modifications including the
custom amp builder's claim of Fender 5F6A cleans and 1960s Marshall dirty tones.

It was only after I purchased the amp during 3/2012 that I began
to study the Paul Rivera Era Fender amps. Then, I had to have
the Twin Reverb II in amp head form to try playing through different
speaker cabinet combinations. I ended up purchasing a near mint
Twin Reverb II from Mark Gillespie who is and has been the lead guitarist
for the Trace Adkins Band, for many years. Real cool stuff.
Gotta see Trace Adkins & Mark Gillespie perform . . . . .
if they'll ever leave Nashville for Northern California

[Vincent]

When playing on a Les Paul it's just the ultimate Santana sound from the 70's. This amp was Fender's answer to Boogie and the gains Boogie produced. Not to a Dumble
Playing the lead channel using your volume to roll of, you get loads of sounds to use from. Rivera did a good job. Everybody knows the 'super champ'.
Settings I use for the Concert and the Twin II on the lead channel are:
Volume 10, gain 5, treble mid and bas: 10, presence 5. Always pull out the mid knob.

[pamaz67]

I owned 2 concert II amps over the years.
On one of them I've prformed the lee jakson mods as per his dvd instructions that still I have somewhere lying around.
In no way, the original Concert II and the modified one as per Lee Kackson instrustions, can resemble a decent dumble schematic.
Not that the concert II is a bad amp. I agree that is a wonderful mod platform, but the sound i got from the original and the modified one was not in any way in dumble territory.

[Toppscore]

Dumble is ~ top of the line. IMHO.

[Toppscore]

I've owned and played through a Fender Concert II amp head,
Fender Reverb II amp head and Fender II combo amp,
the Lee Jackson GP1000 stacked with the Lee Jackson SP1000
and a few other 1980s/1990s Fender amps. No Marshalls.

To me, they're all good (no bad amps there) and they simply just
tweak differently with various pedals. I like to have the modern
amps (post 1978) modified, but have a hard time doing any mods
on 1950s and 1960s amps.

Same with guitars ~
mod the hell out of modern shit,
appreciate older ones as they sit.

Better to sell'em before modifying them.

[Mitch Roberts]

As is evidenced by this thread, our friend Toppscore is well known to a few other forums as a hype master of the first order. He latches on to an otherwise interesting vintage amp that he has just "scored" and then proceeds to build a case to eventually eBay it for an astronomical price. Oh yes, it starts off innocently enough, just asking for "help" in "learning" about what he has fortuitously "stumbled across".

But rest assured it's all part of the plan to hype the subject gear into the stratosphere so he can dupe some poor sucker into buying his one-of-a-kind Holy Grail amp for a stupid price. The sheer absurdity of this present example, and his repeated quoting of the mysterious "Custom Amp Builder" is all just part of the drill.

Just keeping it real. To me, given the shear volume of posting he puts forth is a marvel in its own right, and signals to me a person with way too much time on his hands. What is missing here is more of his usual BOLD ENLARGED AND BRIGHTLY COLORED TYPE FACES and other such blatant and transparent efforts to hype. His very first entry in this thread is the most typical in his "style". The succession of his own repeated posts to this thread is just another transparent effort on his part to ressurect his dying thread.

Oh well, it's (for now, at least) a free country. (and of course, I have just contributed to his madness by bumping this absurd thread)

[martin manning]

This guy was pretty much shown the door here, and hasn't been around in a while: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=
You put an interesting perspective on his activities, though.