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WTB: Trainwreck Cabinet Logo

 
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Brad737



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: WTB: Trainwreck Cabinet Logo Reply with quote

Hello all,

I'm looking for one of the plexi Trainwreck cabinet logos to put on my new flamed maple cabinet. If you have one available, please let me know!

Thanks,
Brad

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leaveitalone84



Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the registered trademark TW logo?
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Brad737



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you know how there are about 40 million aftermarket Marshall and Fender logos for the replacement cabinets? I just thought it would look sort of cool to dress up my cabinet with one. Do you have one available?
Thanks,
Brad


leaveitalone84 wrote:
Like the registered trademark TW logo?

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gearhead



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 929
Location: Virginia (Fairfax)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's one of the big no-nos around these parts. Fender and Marshall put out 40 million amps, cabinets, stompboxes, tshirts, you name it. But Trainwreck put out less than a hundred amps.

There have been big-time arguments on this one, both here and on The Gear Page.
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leaveitalone84



Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad737 wrote:
Yeah, you know how there are about 40 million aftermarket Marshall and Fender logos for the replacement cabinets? I just thought it would look sort of cool to dress up my cabinet with one. Do you have one available?
Thanks,
Brad


leaveitalone84 wrote:
Like the registered trademark TW logo?


No, I don't have one and I am with gearhead on this one. Big NO-NO

There was a huge thing about this with Nik (ceriatone) including them on his TW Plexi faceplates. While in Malaysia he is not infringing on anything, but it's quite morally wrong, and he stopped that practice. That is why his faceplates now have dragons.

I think that is part of the reason Ceriatone TW clone discussion was banned at the Gearpage.
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Chris G



Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 289
Location: rochester n.y.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Brad,
I don't have 1 for sale, but I do have 1 question......"Is this amp for you or is it for sale".........If it's for YOU.......than the guy's that posted in response to your question should take there BS back to the gear page......................

Do yourself a big favor and read as many OLD postes here as you can,you will get a feel for the guy's who could give a shit about what logo you put on an amp that is intended for YOU.Then ask them where to find 1..............

If it's for sale make sure you can remove it before you post the pictures of the amp.Let the NEW owner of the amp decide if they want it on or not.........

Bottom line is this........I've only seen 2 guy's around here who could pass off one of there clone Trainwreck's as the REAL deal...........Everybody esle is just pissin in the wind Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Chris
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Brad737



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Chris,

Thanks for the moral support. I agree with you completely. I just had a custom faceplate made with my daughter's name engraved on it, so the amp is most definitely a keeper.

I have to admit, I think it's kind of funny how some "gentlemen" think they're so morally superior and smug about trivial things. I made the Marshall comment because 99% of the amp builders out there will slap a Marshall logo on a Mojo head in a New York second and think NOTHING of it. And Marshall still produces thousands of amps per year. The Marshall marque can definitely be damaged by this. But me just making a simple request draws fire. Trust me, if Ken were still with us, I'd absolutely buy an amp from him, probably two. But the last time I checked, Trainwreck Circuits really wasn't a viable entity. When was the last time Trainwreck actually sold a new amp?

I just think it's a lot of hypocrisy. Most of these guys see nothing wrong with blatantly stealing Ken's circuit design, which the real heart of the amp. Then they get pissy about a hobbyist just wanting his amp to look more authentic. It just doesn't add up...

Thanks,
Brad

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benoit



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 871

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad737 wrote:
Hey Chris,

Thanks for the moral support. I agree with you completely. I just had a custom faceplate made with my daughter's name engraved on it, so the amp is most definitely a keeper.

I have to admit, I think it's kind of funny how some "gentlemen" think they're so morally superior and smug about trivial things. I made the Marshall comment because 99% of the amp builders out there will slap a Marshall logo on a Mojo head in a New York second and think NOTHING of it. And Marshall still produces thousands of amps per year. The Marshall marque can definitely be damaged by this. But me just making a simple request draws fire. Trust me, if Ken were still with us, I'd absolutely buy an amp from him, probably two. But the last time I checked, Trainwreck Circuits really wasn't a viable entity. When was the last time Trainwreck actually sold a new amp?

I just think it's a lot of hypocrisy. Most of these guys see nothing wrong with blatantly stealing Ken's circuit design, which the real heart of the amp. Then they get pissy about a hobbyist just wanting his amp to look more authentic. It just doesn't add up...

Thanks,
Brad


I can see what you're saying about the double standard concerning the circuit and the logo. However, from a purely legal standpoint, the circuit is not protected, but the logo is. Trademark law is intended to protect apparent commercial origin, so that no one is misled to think that a product not made by Trainwreck, for example, was made by Trainwreck. Does it get ignored a lot, esp with bigger manufacturers? You bet. Could you probably get away with it just fine? Of course.

In my mind though its like trying to find a Bentley logo to glue on to the front of your Cooper Mini. Or your Ferrari, for that matter. It's not a Bentley. What's the point?

I think what people are objecting to is not any violation of trust/copyright/whatever, but giving an amp not built by Ken Fisher the appearance that it was. Think about how you would feel if someone took the logo belonging to someone you highly respected and slapped it on their work. Even if their work was top notch it still might be a little hard to accept.

Maybe a similarly styled logo to read "Trainwreck Inspired?"

I'm not having a go at you, just suggesting a few reasons why it might be better not to use the logo as-is.
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leaveitalone84



Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be it Marshall, Fender, Vox, Ampeg, Trainwreck....using their logos on your amp is violation of the law. It doesn't matter if you are making a clone of their work. I am giving an objection on this point. I work at a Intellectual Property firm and deal with things like this everyday in the pharma industy.

Brad 737, it's great that you made a great clone, and named if after your daughter. That is actually really, really cool and thoughtful. But, on the otherhand you arn't Ken Fisher and by putting a TW logo on the amp you need to think of other consequences. If it looks like a real TW someones gonna want to steal it. They may not even care its real, but they will try to sell it as one. It has happened with cloned marshalls.

Honestly, I never got the idea about putting a marshall logo on an amp clone. Why would someone want to make your handbuilt baby be labeled as a plain jane Marshall? Names don't really mean a thing, it's about the tone first and foremost. I really see no positive from this action. It hurts the builder and the original company. It perpetuates that buying a Marshall will get you the "tone" and the small builder gets no credit.

The real TW club is small and very expensive to get into. Part of the reason this community is like it is, is because owners shared gut shots. If people start putting logos on fake amps this will make real owners hesitate doing this in the future. They have a vested interest in the rarity of their TW's.

Maybe I seemed a little harsh in my previous post. Nothing was meant to be personally inflamatory or insulting. I apologize if you took it that way, but to me this is a matter of law. While not all laws are good and are contrary to moral norms these particular laws protect the past and present consumer, builder, and original designers. Therefore it's a reasonable one IMHO to follow.

Still it's your amp and you can do what you want with it. As benoit said "I'm not having a go at you, just suggesting a few reasons why it might be better not to use the logo as-is."
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Brad737



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 142
Location: Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever, guys...

I just asked for some help in decorating one of my favorite amps. And I get rude responses, including two really hateful pm's. Some of you guys don't care to blatantly steal Ken's designs, and SELL THEM FOR PROFIT. But as a simple hobbyist, I get slagged in defense of a nonviable corporation that hasn't produced an amplifier in YEARS.

Frankly, I expected more from the Amp Garage. This is exactly the kind of crap that's destroyed the Gear Page. I guess some of your parents never taught you that "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".

I do have a rhetorical question for you all. Do any of you have non-Fender guitars with Strat-shaped headstocks? How about full-on Fender copies? How about an Ibanez Gibson copy? Have you copied cd's onto cassette tapes? How about burned cd's onto your iPod? Ever downloaded mp3's? Thought so...

I think it's hysterical that the idea of asking for a logo is soooo wrong, yet I've already had four people offer logos to me. If it's so offensive to you all, there sure are a lot of Trainwreck logos floating around. I've purchased two for my own personal use.

For those of you who have offered assistance, in my logo search, and for all of my other Wreck questions, I really appreciate your generosity and kindness.

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-- L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach, in 1949
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Omar



Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 433
Location: Cleveland, OH

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys,
I don't want this to turn into a heated discussion. As I've stated in the past, this forum was founded as a place for amp builders and Ken gave his blessing to us provided that we did this for personal use. I think it's pretty easy to extend this blessing into not violating his Trainwreck trademark, which his family continues to enforce despite his unfortunate passing.

It's not about being morally superior or smug about the issue. It's about have a gentlemen's agreement with Ken and doing what is ethically right.

To imply that we are stealing Ken's designs is a pretty serious charge. Stealing implies that people are taking his designs and passing it off as their own. I don't see that happening here.

Also, stating that 99% of builders would slap a Marshall logo on a Mojo cabinet is a gross overstatement. I don't deny that there are people that do it but let's not use a safety in numbers argument using factious statistics.

Lastly, we tend to become myopic in our views of amps in general thinking that anyone would be able to tell a real Trainwreck from a fake. The number of guitarist who have even heard of a Trainwreck is small. From that pool of people, only a fraction of people could tell the difference from a real and fake. This extends to Marshall clones as well. Do you really think the average guitarist could tell a Marshall reissue from a Metro built clone that had a Marshall logo on it? We tend to think that everyone shares our passion for amps but the truth is that we are a niche market.

Omar

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