123 Schematic

talbany · Post by **talbany** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:35 am

Here is an accurate schematic of 123..Complete with voltages..The amp was voiced for a Stratocaster and is reported to sound wonderful!!.. Notice the tone stack..

Enjoy!!

Tony

steve_p · Post by **steve_p** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:34 am

Very cool tony,
Thanks for posting.

Steve

B · Post by B » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:10 am

Interesting. Being primarily a strat player myself, this is relevant to my interests. Also, I was under the impression high plates were more of a humbucker option, as opposed to low plates/single coils? Is that too much of a generalization?

ToneMerc · Post by **ToneMerc** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:21 am

talbany wrote:The amp was voiced for a Stratocaster and is reported to sound wonderful!!.. Notice the tone stack..

Tony

Yes it does, that's a transitional 4th gen classic TS right? Regardless, thats the TS in my "004" build, only with a 1.8K tail.

TM

talbany · Post by **talbany** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:29 am

ToneMerc wrote:
talbany wrote:The amp was voiced for a Stratocaster and is reported to sound wonderful!!.. Notice the tone stack..

Tony
Yes it does, that's a transitional 4th gen classic TS right? Regardless, thats the TS in my "004" build, only with a 1.8K tail.

TM

Check the 150k slope..

T

Teleguy61 · Post by **Teleguy61** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:41 am

Tony-
you rule.

ToneMerc · Post by **ToneMerc** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:43 am

talbany wrote:
ToneMerc wrote:
talbany wrote:The amp was voiced for a Stratocaster and is reported to sound wonderful!!.. Notice the tone stack..

Tony
Yes it does, that's a transitional 4th gen classic TS right? Regardless, thats the TS in my "004" build, only with a 1.8K tail.

TM
Check the 150k slope..

T

I have a 150K slope in mine as well. On my list is to remove that bastardized skyliner TS in my first quad 6V6 build and install this one as well.

TM

talbany · Post by **talbany** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:01 am

ToneMerc wrote:
talbany wrote:
ToneMerc wrote: Yes it does, that's a transitional 4th gen classic TS right? Regardless, thats the TS in my "004" build, only with a 1.8K tail.

TM
Check the 150k slope..

T

I have a 150K slope in mine as well. On my list is to remove that bastardized skyliner TS in my first quad 6V6 build and install this one as well.

TM

Mike
That's the first Classic stack I've seen with a 150k slope..Not sure how it would sound w 6V's//give it a whirl and keep us posted please!!

Also has the 500k (possibly scratched) trigger and tandy wire and unaltered at the time of the schematic.... Tubes were 7581 Stays "clean" in clean mode with a strat up to nearly full volume. Has been made for a 1956 maple neck strat. It is the sister amp of the one Bruce Sandler offers at gbase with the matching 2 x 12". He ordered both with the export transformer (touring player)
AFAIK..The amp was still gooped, measurements were taken by inserting needles through the permatex,:roll: Apparently this altered the sound of the amp... #123 was made in 1984

Tony

stevlech · Post by **stevlech** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:10 am

Thanks, Tony.

Has been made for a 1956 maple neck strat

EJ?

Max · Post by **Max** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:12 am

Just to avoid misunderstandings:

ToneMerc wrote:that's a transitional 4th gen classic TS right?

IMO #0123 isn't a "transition generation classic" ODS, but the high plate version of a rather typical "4th generation classic" with internal trigger and h. f. taper trim pots. I've attached a data sheet of a 4th generation classic ODS combo amp. AFAIR #0123 has a switchable OT: If there's a plug only in output 1 it's 8 ohm. If there's a plug in output 2, too, then both outputs are 4 ohm. So if you want to use it with the matching Dumble 2x12" 4 ohm cabinet for #0123 loaded with 2 EVM 12S speakers connected with output 1, then you need a second "dummy plug" in output 2.
An example for a "transition generation classic" ODS (high plate version) is #0094: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56697#56697

talbany wrote:That's the first Classic stack I've seen with a 150k slope.

If this schematic of #0094 is correct http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56783#56783 , then at least #0094 has a 150K slope resistor, too.

talbany wrote:Has been made for a 1956 maple neck strat. It is the sister amp of the one Bruce Sandler offers at gbase with the matching 2 x 12". He ordered both with the export transformer (touring player)

AFAIK the musician and first owner who ordered both amps - each one with a matching 2x12" cabinet and a mono Dumbleator - isn't Bruce Sandler.

Considering the method reportedly used to find out what's under the goop, IMO some caution in regard to the correctness of this schematic of #0123 might be appropriate.

Have fun!

Max

Dr d · Post by **Dr d** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:23 am

Thanks for this, Tony. I tried this out a short while ago and it does, indeed, sound wonderfull! The OD is particularly warm and smooth. Almost felt like the HF taper wasnt really needed (however I did omit the 500pf bypass cap over the 220K going into V1B). Thanks for the clarification....it is really worth a look at!

10thTx · Post by **10thTx** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:03 am

Tony,

I have already redrawn this into a editable ExpressSCH file.

Would you be supportive of my posting that along with the other D-files that are ExpressSCH editable?

IF so, I will post a GIF version here so forum members can check for errors prior to putting in the D-files. I do think that perhaps the version I drew may be a little easier to read?

Thanks for sharing it.

With respect, 10thtx

talbany · Post by **talbany** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:48 pm

An example for a "transition generation classic" ODS (high plate version) is #0094: http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=56697#56697

Max
Looking at the pics Gregor posted of 094 I cant determine the value of the slope so IMO if this schematic was drawn up using this pic I would have suspect.. BTW you can clearly see the green stripe on the V2b level feeder and not on the slope..Thanks for jumping in

Jeff
I think that's a wonderful idea...Post away.. I am thinking since we don't yet have a ODS layout w/ internal HF taper I'll see if I can revise the 102 layout to 123 specs.. Should'nt take long if I can find time..Perhaps we can dedicate a sticky for it and post them together..If anyone knows more about 123 and wants to help you can email me @ talbany@vvtamps.com

Thanks!!

Tony

10thTx · Post by **10thTx** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:31 pm

OK, thanks Tony ! Very generous of you to share with us.

Please consider this schematic as a DRAFT until we get some more eyes on it looking for errors & comments are made.

Once that is done, I will correct it & delete the previous schematic.

Q1: Value guesses on the power tube cathode resistor and diode?

Q2: Value guess on the bias?

Q3: Want this posted with a 404k resistor or a 500k pot regarding the OD
tone control?

With respect, 10thtx

Max · Post by **Max** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:18 pm

talbany wrote: Looking at the pics Gregor posted of 094 I cant determine the value of the slope so IMO if this schematic was drawn up using this pic I would have suspect.

Tony, I don't know which pictures ic-racer used to identify the slope resistor of #0094 to be 150k. But AFAIR Gregor Hilden posted some more detailed pictures of #0094 as a part of the item description for the eBay auction. So perhaps ic-racer had a more detailed picture at hand when he drew this schematic of #0094. But perhaps ic-racer may chime in and explain why he thought the slope in #0094 to be 150k.

since we don't yet have a ODS layout w/ internal HF taper I'll see if I can revise the 102 layout to 123 specs

So you think that sticking needles thru the goop - as you wrote - is a trustworthy method for figuring out the circuit of a gooped ODS?

All the best and a great weekend to all here!

Max

The Amp Garage

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