Tubes on eBay

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brentm
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Tubes on eBay

Post by brentm »

I thought I'd post a lesson I had to re-learn...

Picked up this tube on eBay. I was hoping for a Philips Herleen Amperex tube. The one that arrived looked nothing like the tube in this auction picture.



I removed the masking tape around the tube with 90/90 written on it. I hate masking tape on tubes. I much prefer the test results written on a box. So, masking tape and sharpie all over the tube. There's also mica chips floating around inside... barely visible on picture #1.

Plug it in and A/B it with a quality Amperex Holland tube. The tube I purchased sounds like a wet blanket over the speaker compared to the reference tube.

So, I ignored the warning signs and bought the tube any way. My warning sings were... I suppose.

1. Seller had low feedback rating. Although it was 100 percent positive with many happy tube purchases, it was still an account with ONLY 69 feedbacks.

2. No returns stated in the auction description. Seems a bit sketchy when sellers refuse to accept returns. I know most people struggle with tubes... different test equipment yields different results. Deception and foul play on both seller and buyer sides.... can create strange environments for post-transaction dealings...

I'm into it for a little less than 30 bucks. But you do that a few times (which I have) and it adds up....

I thought perhaps this might remind those out there hunting eBay for tubes on possible pitfalls or ways things go awry.

Now my quesiton is... do I leave a negative feedback response and move on? Here is the sellers response ""Send the tube back with packing that it came in. Make sure the tube you send has the 'Hammond' lettering and 'made in Holland' just like the tube I sent you. No bogus tricks etch code claims to impress invisible eBay customer 'no support'."
"

The tube doesn't have that lettering. I feel like this was a bit of a setup.
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Last edited by brentm on Sun May 06, 2012 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
surfsup
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by surfsup »

Well, I had to go to ebay and check my own account after reading this - as an "ebayer" with only 6 responses myself (all positive), (I guess I should look at myself as a pretty sketchy guy when I look in the mirror because what's with the 6 paltry responses? :twisted: ) you might not be interested in my comments:

1) Seriously, seems like a setup but maybe an honest mistake? Ask him honestly if he mispackaged the wrong tube. Doesn't hurt to ask.

2) Use ebay's buyer protection.

3) Send him the tube back and tell him this is what you got, and the deal was misrepresented.

4) Do all three above

I guess I have 6 responses because I don't use ebay much in my 10 year ebay membership. I pucker up every time, and expect the worst. I was screwed twice, and ebay doesn't have a good record with me so I avoid it 99% of the time. Its a shame people are not more honest.
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ampmike
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Tubes

Post by ampmike »

Yea,You always take a risk on ebay.I have bought a few from Cedist and mojo lately.I figure they are more money but a gurantee is worh it.Sometimes Mojo has a sale on NOS 12ax7 for about 10 or 12 bucks,I bought 3 and they sound great.And here on TAG in the for sale section you know your going to get a good tube.Im needing some el34's siemens I would like to get for my express.I only had 6v6"s nos in it and they are starting to sound fizzy.Ebay is tempting because there are some great looking buy it now prices.Good luck Bro,Mikey
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David Root
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by David Root »

The tube in the seller's pic is a Heerlen tube, the Heerlen delta mark plus three digits is clearly visible at the base of the tube.

Does your tube have the Heerlen date code on it? It has similar looking lettering, just worn a bit. My point is that if it is a Heerlen tube I don't think you have much of a case, even though he doesn't say what tester he used to get 90/90 readings. If it's not a Heerlen tube you have a solid case on that alone. 90/90 on my tester is less than NOS(100/100) but still good in a 12AX7. $25 for a Heerlen 12AX7 is about half what they normally go for IME.

I have bought many tubes on EBay and only had a couple that weren't completely as described, and those were weak tubes past their prime, which is what your description sounds like.
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Structo
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by Structo »

If you are sure it is not the tube you thought you were getting you can open a case with ebay.
But it sounds like the seller will give you a refund.

But I think I would open a case because what's to prevent him from saying you sent a different tubes back. (I'm sure that has happened before)

I bought some Germanium transistors that was to include three NOS Tunsgram AC176 transistors.
They were supposedly picked for a Tonebender gain wise.

Well, I only received two transistors, I think the guy sent me a Fuzzface set by mistake.
But after repeated tries to email him I got no response.
So I opened a case based on the item did not match the description.

Low and behold the seller finally contacted me and said he was away on his honeymoon.
Whatever.
He sent me three additional transistors and I closed the case and gave him positive feedback.

There is a possibility the the tube seller has a few of the same brand and you got one that was similar in
gain but not the exact one in the picture.

But, usually when that is the case the item will say something like 10 left or so.

Try to work it out with the seller and then if he doesn't want to cooperate, file a case with ebay.

Is it possible the tape that was on it removed the lettering when you peeled it off?

Most lettering on vintage tubes is pretty fragile and it doesn't take much to rub it off.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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ToneMerc
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by ToneMerc »

Here's my "red star" take on it from buying and selling going back 12 years. FWIW; I don't give refunds either, but I'm honest, terribly accurate in descriptions and I don't bullshit people either....returns are for Walmart.

1. I don't see where the it's misrepresented at all. Everything that I see listed in that ad is written on the tube:

a. It's definitely a 12AX7.
b.It's labled Hammond
c. Made in Holland.
d.Tested strong 90/90 on BK 667, if that was his actual test, it is what it is.
e: The "low use" statement a moot point as that is far too relative and besides it's definitely a used item.


2. Here's what it doesn't say:
a. Not listed as NOS, nor cosmetic perfect.
b: As far as Amperex?, that's saying he's not even sure if it's even an Amperex. That should have been the major warning sign....uncertainty. I don't see anywhere in the ad that it's a red label Phillips Herleen Amperex. Eventhough you couldn't tell by the single picture listed you were hoping it was a Philips Herleen Amperex tube, so you assumed a certain amount of risk and gambled on the BIN listing and lost. It does clearly state "no returns", so obviously you assumed it was worth a $30 risk or you wouldn't bidded, right? He shouldn't responsible because it doesn't sound like your reference tube.

3: Mica spacers: now if he just tossed it in an overly large box and wrapped only with a paper towel that would be my argument that maybe that it contributed to the mica spacers breaking. However, if it was packed with reasonable care, I think he did his part as a seller. Knowing tubes are delicate, did you ask about how he packs tubes or insurance?
4: ONLY 69: He has 69 total transactions, a 100% feedback rating with 66 of those as a seller, but does that really even matter? If this was 3000, wouldn't you be in the same situation? What if this was a swap meet or Craigslist?
Honestly, on the surface eventhough he has only 69, he has an excellent record as a seller which makes up 95% of his total. Now, of your own 281 feedback rating, do you have 267 transactions (95%) as as as seller? If you were list a few tubes on eBay, which of you would have the better net record as a seller?

Buying tubes this format you have to assume the risks. Unless he was terribly negligent in the packaging I don't see any reason to leave him negative feedback or get eBay involved. Maybe he will work out something with you, if not count it as a dud, sometimes you have them. If this method of tube buying to is too risky then perhaps you need to find a different procurement method for tubes.


CAVEAT EMPTOR

good luck

TM
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overtone
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by overtone »

Hi brentm,

I understand your frustration, but I feel that it would be bad form to leave -ve feedback now that the seller has offered to accept a return. Even if his conditions might seem blunt or rude.

You have to take the rough with the smooth on Ebay.
Win some loose some.

Best, tony
brentm
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by brentm »

Thanks all, for the responses!

While it does sound like a bit of a whine in my post. I'd say I'm more hopeful that others can take a look and perhaps be reinforced by my follies here. Here's the flip side of the coin on that tube.

If it's Heerlen (delta65), then it doesn't matter the brand. My reference tube is a Heerlen Amperex.. but they come under different labels. The codes are where the rubber meets the road. You can faintly see in the first picture that it looks like I64 which would indicate that it's of Munich origin. That was my first clue that the tube was swapped from the auction photo. No where is there a delta (unequal triangle) etched on the tube like the one pictured. I looked really closely with a flashlight, blacklight, and natural light.

It also puzzles me why a tube with such great silkscreen, as photographed in the auction, would come with sharpie pen writing all over it (some of which I wiped off to reveal the manuf codes) and also tape around it with 90/90. The sharpie reads 12AX7 but that part of the silkscreen is still intact. Unnecessary, redundant, and most likely was applied to the glass to obscure the etch codes of the tube.

At any rate... I'm not out too much dough. I thought it was a good reminder to folks to be weary of eBay purchases when it comes to tubes. I've had some good luck and some bad luck with tubes (both as a buyer and seller). I think I've only had one return in my auctions and I quickly remedied the situation. I'd rather have a happy buyer and happy seller than stick someone with a product they were not happy with simply because my own policy didn't allow refunds. And it also matters on what type of demographic you're dealing with... if I were selling car stereo equipment on eBay, I'd expect more trouble than I would, say if I were selling books.

The tables have turned some for sellers as well. They cannot leave negative feedbacks for buyers, which makes them somewhat vulnerable in situations like this. Although I feel there was something underhanded in this auction, and that folks dealing with this particular character should know that what is pictured is not what you'll receive, I likely won't leave a negative feedback note. At least you guys know :) Tone Merc does have a point as I knew what I was getting into and the odds, and above all, caveat emptor.
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Phil_S
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by Phil_S »

I''m not meaning to pile on here, but I think ToneMerc covers the eBay ground very well.

One thing I'd ad is that, while I don't do refunds either, I did have one sale where the buyer received a DOA RAM DIMM from me. The A--hole proceeded to immediately give me NFB without contacting me because I stated "no refunds." So, I asked him what the problem was and even though he gave me NFB that wasn't justified before contacting me, I refunded the whole transaction. Later, with some prodding, I got him to revise the NFB to positive. I relate the story for two reasons: 1) it always pays to contact the seller and it is simply the right thing to do, and 2) honest sellers will make accommodation to a reasonable request, even under difficult circumstances. One more story....I recently bought an OT that tested bad and the seller gave an immediate refund, for which I gladly gave good positive FB.

The next comment is that you should never spend on eBay what you aren't willing to flush down the crapper. This price point is different for everyone and maybe even by transaction. My price point tends to be lower with a low FB seller -- 69 is low, IMO. When I buy something on eBay, I go into it with the idea that it might never show up on my doorstep. Then, I'm pleasantly surprised when it does. In general, I like to keep it under $25. There are a few sellers that I've used more than one time, and I am willing to spend a bit more with them.

eBay can be a difficult marketplace to navigate. You need to be thick skinned about it.
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Structo
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by Structo »

While we're talking about tubes and ebay, I bought a GE 12ax7 a while back and usually when I buy tubes they over packed.
Wrapped in bubble wrap stuck in a small well padded box.
It would have to be run over by a truck to get damaged. (knock wood)

The last tube the guy wrapped a piece of cardboard around the tube and stuck it in one of those small manila envelopes with the small bubble wrap.

I had to send him a message that I was surprised the tube made it across the country undamaged.

His reply was that he has shipped thousands of tubes that way and never had a problem.

Well, he didn't have a feedback score that high but anyway, I won't be giving that guy anymore money.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
brentm
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by brentm »

Structo wrote:While we're talking about tubes and ebay, I bought a GE 12ax7 a while back and usually when I buy tubes they over packed.
Wrapped in bubble wrap stuck in a small well padded box.
It would have to be run over by a truck to get damaged. (knock wood)

The last tube the guy wrapped a piece of cardboard around the tube and stuck it in one of those small manila envelopes with the small bubble wrap.

I had to send him a message that I was surprised the tube made it across the country undamaged.

His reply was that he has shipped thousands of tubes that way and never had a problem.

Well, he didn't have a feedback score that high but anyway, I won't be giving that guy anymore money.
Yeah, I've received them both ways also. Tube box inside a manilla bubble mailer and the overpacker. The original tube box was a bit smashed up but the tube arrived OK. There is one eBayer I've had good luck dealing with... Her ID is GreenGirl something or other out of New York... I've purchased a handful of tubes through her and they've always been legit. Some of the online reviews and a few of her feedbacks mention the tubes arrive and test lower than her posted measurements, but they are still generally happy with the transaction.
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rdjones
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by rdjones »

eBay is a total crapshoot when bidding (or Buying It Now) on any so-called vintage items, especially tubes.

For a Hammond tube you can just about buy a pulled chassis and part it out and get the tubes for a lesser portion of the total price.
But it's a lot of additional work and chance taking if you're just after a particular tube and don't really need the other tubes, capacitors and transformers.

In a true auction the selling price is set by the market, but "Buy it Now" the price is predetermined by the seller and usually inflated.
I usually set fairly low price limits for myself on used tubes unless I'm after something really elusive.
I've got a decent stash now so that's rarely the case any more.

My "favorite seller" for tubes starts all his auctions at $0.99 and packs
really well, describes accurately and includes lots of good pictures and test results.

I've had one set of preamp tubes that appeared good in the auction picture but one of them was "snowcapped" when I got them.
They were packed reasonably well ... maybe that one last "tested before shipping" routine ? The tube was clearly cracked around the base.

In the end, unless you want to pay a premium to a retailer for testing and a guarantee, you takes your chances.

reddog Steve
Bob S
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Re: Tubes on eBay

Post by Bob S »

It's surprising how quickly ebay changed. 5 years ago you could get old chassis with tubes very cheap. I got a few with good mullard/amperex tubes worth more than the price for the transformers. Those days have gone
:roll:
Watch your local listings for garage/estate sales.
Good Luck & Happy Hunting guys.
Why Aye Man
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