Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

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Toppscore
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Hi! Thanks for the large bit of information. The custom amp builder
I purchased from DID NOT make any Dumble claims, nor did I.

Apparently, some players/builders do think so. Possibly, they may be
discussing tone/sound qualities versus exact schematic comparisons.

Above, I quoted someone else who was trying to buy my highly modded
Concert II amp as well. He stated the Concert II and the Twin Reverb II amps are the
best known "production-line" amps that produce "closest to Dumble" sounds & tones.
Someone quoted that Larry Carlton's amp tech claims the same thing.

Therefore, maybe we are discussing highly modded Concert II
tones and sounds . . . . . versus schematics and installed components.

Over the past year, I have read other similar Fender-II/Dumble comments,
therefore the interest on my part to ask for your thoughts and ideas.
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tribi9
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by tribi9 »

This post read like an infomercial... :shock:
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Reeltarded
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Reeltarded »

For AB 3w CCs. I want it!
Toppscore
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

tribi9 wrote:This post read like an infomercial... :shock:
A Highly-Modded Infomercial - haha :D
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ToneMerc
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by ToneMerc »

tribi9 wrote:This post read like an infomercial... :shock:
yeah, this isn't The Gear Page though.................LOL

TM
Chad
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Chad »

Hey Toppscore I don't know how your amp sounds (maybe some clips of it may help) But if your happy with it then great . I'm not sure how close it sounds to a dumble or if it can be made to sound like one if that is what you would like,but I hope you get their soon. Anyway good luck. Check around the Dumble pages you may get some ideas if that is the direction you are aiming for.This forum has many great guys and plenty of info. Again good luck, Chad
Toppscore
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Toppscore wrote:
tribi9 wrote:This post read like an infomercial... :shock:
A Highly-Modded Infomercial - haha :D
Actually, simply discussing on a Trainwreck/Dumble forum
about what some persons in the world think. I just happened
to own the Concert II and the Twin Reverb II before reading
of Dumble comparisons.

Apparently to have a dedicated Dumble/Trainwreck forum,
enough players and amp technicians believe there's
something special towards both these amps' sound and tone.

The closest I will get is a Dumble clone.
Actually, I am eyeing a Dumble kit :wink:
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Toppscore
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

Chad wrote:Hey Toppscore I don't know how your amp sounds (maybe some clips of it may help) But if your happy with it then great . I'm not sure how close it sounds to a dumble or if it can be made to sound like one if that is what you would like,but I hope you get their soon. Anyway good luck. Check around the Dumble pages you may get some ideas if that is the direction you are aiming for.This forum has many great guys and plenty of info. Again good luck, Chad
Thanks, Chad. However nice my highly modded Concert II and my blackfaced Reverb II do sound to me (and they output great tone), I'm more interested towards wondering what some Dumble experts may know about or may think about other amps being compared to Dumble. My guess is that those who do compare are discussing the sound and tone of potential Dumble clones. I may never see a Dumble, but will investigate Dumble clones and Dumble chassis kits.

I own a 1954 5D6 4x10 Bassman;

an early "six-pre-amp tubed" transitional 1960 6G4 Super Amp
with a 6G8 Twin tone circuit and the 6G4-A tremelo circuit;

1964 Blackface Twin Reverb, 1964 Blackface Super Reverb
and a rare 1964 6G6B Blackface Tuxedo Bassman w/Presence
. . . . . one of the last Blonde ~ Black-Tolex Bassman amps produced.

Chad, I've enough Fender to last a lifetime ~
and wish to study Dumble and Marshall amp heads next
I'll be reading heavily on this foum site. Thanks for the advice.
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Toppscore
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Toppscore »

The gutshot is a ratsnest, like all the Rivera Fenders I have seen.
Rivera had his work cut out for him when he was trying to get the "new sound" using the old wiring techniques.
This is why we make such a big deal about lead dress.
And what happened at the end of the "Rivera Era" ?
Fender started using PCBs. rd


Thanks, RD. First time I heard this thought.

Maybe Paul Rivera left Fender to create a cleaner rats nest ~ haha

Why did Bruce Zinky leave Fender?
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Toppscore
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? N

Post by Toppscore »

ToneMerc wrote:
1. Concert II or Twin II is not even remotely close to any Dumble voicing or a TW.
2. In reality on this forum which I call the derfinitive public discussion boards on Dumble amps, you will rarely find someone mentioning modding a C2 or even mentioning it's is a good canidate for modding.
FWIW, in the context of some like Mr Fuchs modding these, it's not much of a mod when you gut the chassis and use all your own boards and such, in reality just using the chassis, iron abd cabinet as a donor.
3. I hate to bash a "custom builder", but it looks like he's never seen the inside of a Dumble, who is this guy? Makes you want to put on rubber boots. TM
Hi, TM! Custom Builder never made a Dumble claim. I bought that amp for it's incredible offering of different tone possibiliites. Later, after purchasing the Concert II and Twin Reverb II, I began to read about Dumble comparisons from other players and techs. That's it!

Mr Custom Amp Builder is more proud of the modified circuits he created:
1) Channel #1 for a Tweed 5F6A Bassman tone
2) Channel #2 for an Eric Clapton Marshall tone
3) Creating an NFB control as an upgrade from Fender's Presence feature;
opening up more clean headroom or manage the amp's output distortion
4) Changing the Ground Switch to a Bias Switch enabling the Concert II
to switch from 60-watts to 30-watts and another set of amp sounds/tones.
5) With Reverb, Distortion and Power Output options, there's minimal need for pedals/effects.

Anyway, it is a custom different but good amp.
I have all the new schematics, changes, instructions
and details if ever need to return to original :)
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ToneMerc
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? N

Post by ToneMerc »

Toppscore wrote:
ToneMerc wrote:
1. Concert II or Twin II is not even remotely close to any Dumble voicing or a TW.
2. In reality on this forum which I call the derfinitive public discussion boards on Dumble amps, you will rarely find someone mentioning modding a C2 or even mentioning it's is a good canidate for modding.
FWIW, in the context of some like Mr Fuchs modding these, it's not much of a mod when you gut the chassis and use all your own boards and such, in reality just using the chassis, iron abd cabinet as a donor.
3. I hate to bash a "custom builder", but it looks like he's never seen the inside of a Dumble, who is this guy? Makes you want to put on rubber boots. TM
Hi, TM! Custom Builder never made a Dumble claim. I bought that amp for it's incredible offering of different tone possibiliites. Later, after purchasing the Concert II and Twin Reverb II, I began to read about Dumble comparisons from other players and techs. That's it!

Mr Custom Amp Builder is more proud of the modified circuits he created:
1) Channel #1 for a Tweed 5F6A Bassman tone
2) Channel #2 for an Eric Clapton Marshall tone
3) Creating an NFB control as an upgrade from Fender's Presence feature;
opening up more clean headroom or manage the amp's output distortion
4) Changing the Ground Switch to a Bias Switch enabling the Concert II
to switch from 60-watts to 30-watts and another set of amp sounds/tones.
5) With Reverb, Distortion and Power Output options, there's minimal need for pedals/effects.

Anyway, it is a custom different but good amp.
I have all the new schematics, changes, instructions
and details if ever need to return to original :)

It's all good, thanks for the clarification.

TM
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Lynxtrap
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? N

Post by Lynxtrap »

What are the "Lee Jackson"-mods..?
Any chance seing the schematics?

I think the dumble comparison can be traced back to Carlton/Ford, maybe through misunderstandings. As far as I know, Carlton has used at least one of the "Rivera" Fenders, but I'm almost certain it was the Princeton.
Ford has used the "Evil" and Red knob Twins from time to time, which are not even Rivera-era.

On the other hand, with a knowledgable player behind the wheels, the Concert II is not miles away from D-territory IMHO.

While discussing these amps, does anyone have a theory why the lead channel generally doesn't sound good? What's wrong with the design?

Here's the schematic: http://www.stratopastor.org.uk/strato/a ... iagram.pdf
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Reeltarded
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Reeltarded »

Red knob Twin is one of my favorite amps, ever. Top 5 even.
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M Fowler
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by M Fowler »

Reeltarded wrote:Red knob Twin is one of my favorite amps, ever. Top 5 even.
You say that about every amp eventually :)
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Re: Paul Rivera Fender Concert-II compared to Dumble? YES? NO?

Post by Reeltarded »

I'll take that dare! What are you sending me!?

;)
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