Bogner Ecstacy Schematic

[andy_prs]

Hi there,

I've never been lucky enough to find a Dumble to try in the UK. I did try a Bogner Ecstacy and a Shiva in Edinburgh yesterday and loved them.

Does anyone have complete schematics for either....particularly the Ecstacy? I've looked online but there only appears to be a single OD circuit in circulation and I'm looking for everything that would be needed to build one.

Thanks!
Andy

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Found on the web.

[novosibir]

Found on the web.

And the amps itself sometimes found on the road dead

Sorry, couldn't resist

Larry

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Found on the web.

And the amps itself sometimes found on the road dead

Sorry, couldn't resist

Larry

Ouch !

[andy_prs]

I must be dull.....don't get the 'dead on the road' reference?

Also, unfortunately the schematic is the same as I already have, the OD channel.....there must be lots more to the amp than that, right?

That's what I'm searching for.......

Thanks!
Andy

[novosibir]

I must be dull.....don't get the 'dead on the road' reference?

Andy, maybe it's better meanwhile with the Bogners, but I've already had some on my bench with solder joint issues, awful popping channel switching, bad working effects loop and other issues not worth to mention.

Already long ago: The Scorpions once got 2 Bogners in Vancouver - and still in Vancouver both suddenly went very quite, with smoke around the amps This has happened again and again, but later Reinhold obviously has fixed this problem.

It wasn't my intention, to make you run for cover from Bogners - only that you know

Larry

[novosibir]

Also, unfortunately the schematic is the same as I already have, the OD channel.....there must be lots more to the amp than that, right?

Although I've already had some Bogners on my bench, they never - to be honest - were interesting enough for me, to analyze the complete schem/layout. But I can give you some 'corner values' from a partial analyzed 101B, if that is of some help:

Rp V1a = 100K (Clean Input)
Rc V1a = 1.5K
Cc V1a = 10µ/35V Tantalum

Rp V1b = 100K (Dirty Input)
Rc V1b = 820
Cc V1b = .68
Cp V1b = 2200p WIMA FKP3

Rp V2a = 100K (2-nd Dirty stage)
Cp-bypass V2a = 1000p WIMA FKP3
Rc V2a = 4.7K
switchable an additional paralleled 4.7K w/ a 1.5µ/25V Tantalum bypassed
Cp V2a = 2200p WIMA FKP3

Rp V2b = 100K (3-nd Dirty stage)
Cp-bypass V2b = 470p WIMA FKP3
Rc V2b = 10K

Rp V3a = 100K (4-nd Dirty stage)
Rc V3a = 1K
Cc V3a = .68

Rp V3b = none (CF)
Rc V3b = 100K

Tone stack = 470p/33K/.022/.022

Rp V4a = none (CF for FX Send)
Rc V4a = 470 + 22K / grid R = 1M

Rp V4b = 100K (FX recovery stage)
Rc V4b = 1.5K

V5a & V5b = PI w/ all the values like in a Marshall 1959/2203

except: Coupling caps to the output tubes = .1/630V WIMA MKS4

Rp V6a = 100K (2-nd Clean stage)
Rc V6a = 1.5K
Cc V6a = 10µ/35V Tantalum
Cp V6a = .022 WIMA FKS8

Rp V6b = 100K (3-th Clean stage)
Rc V6b = 1.5K
Cc V6b = 10µ/35V Tantalum
Cp V6b = .022 WIMA FKS8

Between V6a and V6b is a 3.3M after the .022 and a 220K to ground, the 3.3M is bypassed w/ a 10p Silver Mica - similar to any BF Fender schem

The OT has primary resistances of 16 ohms & 18 ohms from the CT to its ends, has a primary inductance of 4.8H @ 120Hz and its size is exactly like the Dagnall C2668, found in any Marshall 100W amp from 1970 onwards.

Larry

[andy_prs]

Hi Larry,

Thanks so much for this. I think it's now time to explain fully what I'm trying to do....if you're sitting comfortably.....

I play in a 12-piece reggae band and we have recently been joined by a great guitarist from Poland. I mentioned that I'd tried this Bogner Ecstacy amp but that it was ridiculously expensive. He said that when he lived in Poland there was a guy he used to take his amps (and his pupil's amps) to for repair that was really good. Apparently he did a good job and now he is building 'clones' for people. He will do a Marshall style amp for around $400 US Dollars. So, I decided that I would try to find the schematic for the Bogner Ecstacy and see what quote he would give to build a clone.

My electronics skills are very basic....I work on wiring pickups etc, that's all! Looking at the pdf you provided I thought it was just referring to the overdrive channel. Looking at the extra information you have provided, I'm now wondering if it is in fact the complete schematic?

If that is true, what do you mean by 'corner values'?

Do I have enough info for him to build a clone?

Sorry if these questions are a bit basic and/or stupid....

Finally, what do you mean by Bogners never being interesting enough to fully analyze? Do you mean they never sounded good enough to you, or do you mean that they aren't technologically advanced enough to be interesting, or something else?

Sorry for all the questions, and thank you so much for your help.

Kind regards,
Andy

[novosibir]

I'm now wondering if it is in fact the complete schematic?

No, the complete schem wouldt be much more.

If that is true, what do you mean by 'corner values'?

A better description wouldt have been 'key data' or 'basic data' - but I'm a German and don't find the right words every time

Do I have enough info for him to build a clone?

No, that's still far too less for building an entire clone based on this.

Finally, what do you mean by Bogners never being interesting enough to fully analyze? Do you mean they never sounded good enough to you, or do you mean that they aren't technologically advanced enough to be interesting, or something else?

First of all - I don't like amps, where everything is soldered to a large PCB! Especially preamp tube sockets, toggle switches, pots and jacks shouldt be chassis mount IMO, when you consider to build an amp, which is reliable and able to withstand crude handling out on the road.

And yes - I won't sound snotty here - but it's the sound performance of the Bogners, which certainly isn't lacking in no way - but simply not interesting enough for me, to dig deeper in it.

Larry

[sebastian]

Also, unfortunately the schematic is the same as I already have, the OD channel.....there must be lots more to the amp than that, right?

Although I've already had some Bogners on my bench, they never - to be honest - were interesting enough for me, to analyze the complete schem/layout. But I can give you some 'corner values' from a partial analyzed 101B, if that is of some help:

Rp V1a = 100K (Clean Input)
Rc V1a = 1.5K
Cc V1a = 10µ/35V Tantalum

Rp V1b = 100K (Dirty Input)
Rc V1b = 820
Cc V1b = .68
Cp V1b = 2200p WIMA FKP3

Rp V2a = 100K (2-nd Dirty stage)
Cp-bypass V2a = 1000p WIMA FKP3
Rc V2a = 4.7K
switchable an additional paralleled 4.7K w/ a 1.5µ/25V Tantalum bypassed
Cp V2a = 2200p WIMA FKP3

Rp V2b = 100K (3-nd Dirty stage)
Cp-bypass V2b = 470p WIMA FKP3
Rc V2b = 10K

Rp V3a = 100K (4-nd Dirty stage)
Rc V3a = 1K
Cc V3a = .68

Rp V3b = none (CF)
Rc V3b = 100K

Tone stack = 470p/33K/.022/.022

Rp V4a = none (CF for FX Send)
Rc V4a = 470 + 22K / grid R = 1M

Rp V4b = 100K (FX recovery stage)
Rc V4b = 1.5K

V5a & V5b = PI w/ all the values like in a Marshall 1959/2203

except: Coupling caps to the output tubes = .1/630V WIMA MKS4

Rp V6a = 100K (2-nd Clean stage)
Rc V6a = 1.5K
Cc V6a = 10µ/35V Tantalum
Cp V6a = .022 WIMA FKS8

Rp V6b = 100K (3-th Clean stage)
Rc V6b = 1.5K
Cc V6b = 10µ/35V Tantalum
Cp V6b = .022 WIMA FKS8

Between V6a and V6b is a 3.3M after the .022 and a 220K to ground, the 3.3M is bypassed w/ a 10p Silver Mica - similar to any BF Fender schem

The OT has primary resistances of 16 ohms & 18 ohms from the CT to its ends, has a primary inductance of 4.8H @ 120Hz and its size is exactly like the Dagnall C2668, found in any Marshall 100W amp from 1970 onwards.

Larry

Hallo
I'm called Sebastian and I'm from Italy!!

Are you sure of the primary inductance of output transformer??? 4.8H appears to me a bit low....(I think the inductance was about 13-14H..)

I'm trying to replicate some c2668 dagnall for my DIY amps,but here in Italy there is nothing....

Do you know some transformer builders in Europe that replicate well this fucking output transformer??? Shinrock has break my balls..... ,you must wait about from 3 month to 3 years.....

[oldhousescott]

Sowter transformers will do custom models. Probably pretty expensive for one-offs.

Edcor USA will also do custom versions of their stock models. Looks like they have European distribution now, too.

[keithrick]

Sebastion,

Including oldhousescott's suggestions, I would also try Heyboer USA, they might be able to fill your order.

Good luck.

http://www.heyboertransformers.com/index.shtml

[paulster]

I'll second Heyboer. Even factoring shipping from the US and import duty they still work out more cost effective for one-offs and customs than local suppliers, which is a pretty sad indictment of the manufacturing industry in Europe.

[Darkbluemurder]

Also, unfortunately the schematic is the same as I already have, the OD channel.....there must be lots more to the amp than that, right?

Although I've already had some Bogners on my bench, they never - to be honest - were interesting enough for me, to analyze the complete schem/layout. But I can give you some 'corner values' from a partial analyzed 101B, if that is of some help:

Rp V1a = 100K (Clean Input)
Rc V1a = 1.5K
Cc V1a = 10µ/35V Tantalum

Rp V1b = 100K (Dirty Input)
Rc V1b = 820
Cc V1b = .68
Cp V1b = 2200p WIMA FKP3

Rp V2a = 100K (2-nd Dirty stage)
Cp-bypass V2a = 1000p WIMA FKP3
Rc V2a = 4.7K
switchable an additional paralleled 4.7K w/ a 1.5µ/25V Tantalum bypassed
Cp V2a = 2200p WIMA FKP3

Rp V2b = 100K (3-nd Dirty stage)
Cp-bypass V2b = 470p WIMA FKP3
Rc V2b = 10K

Rp V3a = 100K (4-nd Dirty stage)
Rc V3a = 1K
Cc V3a = .68

Rp V3b = none (CF)
Rc V3b = 100K

Tone stack = 470p/33K/.022/.022

Rp V4a = none (CF for FX Send)
Rc V4a = 470 + 22K / grid R = 1M

Rp V4b = 100K (FX recovery stage)
Rc V4b = 1.5K

V5a & V5b = PI w/ all the values like in a Marshall 1959/2203

except: Coupling caps to the output tubes = .1/630V WIMA MKS4

Rp V6a = 100K (2-nd Clean stage)
Rc V6a = 1.5K
Cc V6a = 10µ/35V Tantalum
Cp V6a = .022 WIMA FKS8

Rp V6b = 100K (3-th Clean stage)
Rc V6b = 1.5K
Cc V6b = 10µ/35V Tantalum
Cp V6b = .022 WIMA FKS8

Between V6a and V6b is a 3.3M after the .022 and a 220K to ground, the 3.3M is bypassed w/ a 10p Silver Mica - similar to any BF Fender schem

The OT has primary resistances of 16 ohms & 18 ohms from the CT to its ends, has a primary inductance of 4.8H @ 120Hz and its size is exactly like the Dagnall C2668, found in any Marshall 100W amp from 1970 onwards.

Larry

Larry,

Many thanks for this. When you looked into this amp did you notice what value the channel volume pots and the global master volume was (I would expect 1MA)? And what value NFB resistor did Bogner use (given the fact that he virtually copied the 1959/2203 I would expect anything from 47k-100k)?

I had the chance to play some Bogner amps (Ecstasy, Shiva and Uber) at the Frankfurt Music Fair in 2003. I liked them better than many other boutique amps I had the chance to play through at the 2003 fair (yeah, different tastes, I know and, no, I have not yet had a chance to play through one of your amps).

Of course if anyone else had one of these on their bench please feel free to chime in. As always any input would be highly appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Stephan

[chromaticdeth87]

Have some info on the uberschall, fish, and shiva, the complete ecstasy is on blue guitar.org I have that file also. Pm if you would like the Info.