57goldtop wrote:Fenders, Marshalls, Peaveys ..etc are all made in the thousands on production lines with identifying serial numbers and chassis stamps to track them, more difficult to copy. If you design something cheap enough and offer it at an affordable price, it will discourage competition to copy it.
Trainwrecks are relatively easy to build but the originals cost a fortune, all it takes is getting the right parts and a TW logo and then you're all set.
People would definitely be in the market for one if they "thought" it was an original and knew it would appreciate in value.
And then we're eventually flooded by accurate fakes because Trainwreck just turned a blind eye to it and sat idle...
Could you imagine what that would do to the collector value of the originals ?
Well, that is my point.......Jimmy Page did not play a Trainwreck. How would you flood a market that does not exist. Les Paul's were made by the tens of thousands. There were only a few hundred Wrecks made. Most people who play guitar (not the few of us on forums) do not know or care about Trainwrecks. A Gold Top Les Paul is a totally different story.
Honestly, how many fake, 50k Wrecks, do you think you could sell, just because you had the stupid logo?
Agreed. Why would the family let just anybody slap a tag on an amp and sell it as a TW? Ken built his amps and his reputation using skills and knowledge that only he possessed. It's the family's right to protect Ken's namesake (and the value of his amps) and probably help prevent many people from being ripped off by counterfeits. I don't know of anybody here who proudly builds amps with TW logos on them. There sure are some nice clones around though .
i assume you only own the trademark in the US? or have you registered it in Canada Europe Asia and Australia ? Baring in mind you have to register in each domain? The tw name might not be as protected as you think! Although you could argue it was registered in bad faith if you find it's not protected abroad and you have to renew every 5 years.
hired hand wrote:
Well, that is my point.......Jimmy Page did not play a Trainwreck. How would you flood a market that does not exist. Les Paul's were made by the tens of thousands. There were only a few hundred Wrecks made.
Late 50s LPs only amount to a few thousand guitars if that and their popularity didn't come until later. But that's another story on its own..
hired hand wrote:
how many fake, 50k Wrecks, do you think you could sell, just because you had the stupid logo?
The originals have fetched roughly 30-40k in the past so there would be a small market out there for these amplifiers.
How many of these units would you need to build and how many fools would have to buy them ? Spend $1500 on parts and sell the unit for 30k, that's a fairly good profit after expenses don't you think ?
And you probably only need to sell one or two of them.
Well, I will just say this and then leave it for my betters.
So.....A guy could fake an entire amp, to look like an old Trainwreck, including the unique cabinet, transformers, components, wiring, boards, etc....but they could not fake the damn logo????
Who is trying to fool who?
The stupid logo is just a non-issue other than protection of itself, which certainly is the legal right of the owner.
Best
Not that I care one way or the other but If I'm not mistaken the trademark had a 10 year window and according to the US trademark office it was filed for in 99. So unless Scott or Mona renew it looks like it's up for grabs.
It's strikes me odd that the siblings that know nothing about amps and only "acquired" the trademark through kens death seem more protective of the name than Ken himself ever was. But it's not about money.
Don't kid yourself everything is about money.
No one makes this much effort for the stress and a pat on the back.
I'd like to know what the real plan for Trainwreck is.
Why now?... I'm guessing,
The trainwreck name is worth $X but a working company is worth $XX.
Use up the old stock Ken had, make some $$ to pay off debt and relicense the patents before they expire.
When the parts are gone, sell off the company and make the biggest return on the burdon.
If it was not profitable they wouldn't care one way or the other about logo use. Anyone who knows enough about a Trainwreck to spend $30K+ also knows what build standards Ken used.
It's to bad you met someone who was ripped off but as a consumer it's ultimately my responsibilty to make smart purchases.
OK....The trademark WAS renewed and is carefully watched. FYI, Ken put massive effort into protecting his trademark. Just yesterday, I spent 20 minutes on the phone with an amp builder who was using the name on his own brand of amps. It is a constant! C'mon guys, haven't you seen all the demos online of amps using the name? For sale on ebay and elsewhere?
This myth about the family making all this money is absurd. Speculation but not fact. The myth that Ken made a lot of money is also false.
The truth is, by the family's own definition, is that the family is the only ones counterfeiting Trainwreck Amps. Scott (the original poster and Ken's brother), stated to me in a couple of letters that only Ken can build a TW. He also told me that TW died with him...period. He also stated emphatically that people may be able to clone them but, they will never be right, sound the same, or be close to any original. TW was Kenny NOT the amps. They may be legal but, that don't make them real in Scott own words!
The fact is Scott, we don't care what you or your clan think. This forum is dedicated to Ken and HIS amps. It is dedicated to the discussion, building, and enjoying what a Ken built amp was and is.
I for one, wish you and yours all the best in your future TW endeavors but please, don't come here and tell us what to do in our independent place of relaxation. Some may disagree but, that is what an open forum is all about.
There are no patents on the TW circuits. There is a trademark that protects the name and logo, but that doesn't preclude someone from marketing the TW circuit under a different name. You just can't throw a TW logo on a clone and call it a TW unless you have permission from the TM owner, thus we have John Mark doing just that.
The general consensus here is that Ken did NOT make boatloads of cash off selling his amps, so where the hell did you get that story from?
As for the family making money off the TW name. Why else would they be doing it? For shits and giggles? I highly doubt it. There is definitely profit in selling amps built from an existing stock of parts, plus some labor, for $5K. Do the math.
Allynmey wrote:The truth is, by the family's own definition, is that the family is the only ones counterfeiting Trainwreck Amps. Scott (the original poster and Ken's brother), stated to me in a couple of letters that only Ken can build a TW. He also told me that TW died with him...period. He also stated emphatically that people may be able to clone them but, they will never be right, sound the same, or be close to any original. TW was Kenny NOT the amps. They may be legal but, that don't make them real in Scott own words!
The fact is Scott, we don't care what you or your clan think. This forum is dedicated to Ken and HIS amps. It is dedicated to the discussion, building, and enjoying what a Ken built amp was and is.
I for one, wish you and yours all the best in your future TW endeavors but please, don't come here and tell us what to do in our independent place of relaxation. Some may disagree but, that is what an open forum is all about.
This is not Scott. Open forum? Why would you try to silence someone else's opinions?
Allynmey wrote:The truth is, by the family's own definition, is that the family is the only ones counterfeiting Trainwreck Amps. Scott (the original poster and Ken's brother), stated to me in a couple of letters that only Ken can build a TW. He also told me that TW died with him...period. He also stated emphatically that people may be able to clone them but, they will never be right, sound the same, or be close to any original. TW was Kenny NOT the amps. They may be legal but, that don't make them real in Scott own words!
The fact is Scott, we don't care what you or your clan think. This forum is dedicated to Ken and HIS amps. It is dedicated to the discussion, building, and enjoying what a Ken built amp was and is.
I for one, wish you and yours all the best in your future TW endeavors but please, don't come here and tell us what to do in our independent place of relaxation. Some may disagree but, that is what an open forum is all about.
This is not Scott. Open forum? Why would you try to silence someone else's opinions?
Then Mona? Same location? No one is trying to silence you or get rid of you in any manner. You came here accusing people here of using Trainwreck Logos to sell amps. If you didn't mean us, why post here? You are free to post opinions here...you didn't. You started your posting history on this site as a threat of sorts against anyone using the TW logo to sell amps without stating any individuals that actually are doing that. That is not an opinion. You put forth a threat based on a fact that you own a TM for Trainwreck Amplification.
May I suggest a copy of "How to Win Friends and Influence People"?
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