Sozo Mustard Vintage vs Orange Caps

[roberto]

Seems kind of deceptive on Sozo's part.

In Italy we are used to say: Don't ask to the landlord of the inn how the wine is.

[Roe]

The right caps ? it's about the right balance of all of the parts together. ...

yes, of course.

[martin manning]

Seems kind of deceptive on Sozo's part.

In Italy we are used to say: Don't ask to the landlord of the inn how the wine is.

That's a good one to remember Roberto.

Since the traces Sozo uses to show cap break-in are not the "house" caps, not used in the same application, and not even the same dielectric material used by Sozo, this is pretty egregious behavior IMO. Sozo has dropped a notch or two in my book.

[surfsup]

That's pretty bad...sheesh.

[Aurora]

In addition to me being a proclaimed sceptic, mainly based on a long working practice in electronics, I also have some theory about the subject which would be interesting to air.

"Capacitor sound" is a highly disputed topic also within the HiFi crowd, and is by quite a number of long time and very respected audiophiles dismissed as audiophoolery. I think most agree that there are or may be sonic differences between different types of capacitors. Noone in the HiFi would use ceramic capacitors as coupling caps, as one example, but rather smaller value ceramics are often used in tube tone stacks.
It is the rather the acclaimed sonic differences between identical types that are disputed.

Tube amps works with internal impedances that are generally a 10-fold or more higher than the typical SS amp. The net result of this is that "tone caps" are just a tenth or so in value of a similar SS circuit with the same corner frequency, and stray capacitances will probably play a much larger role in a given circuit. This is also where different forms of productions of basically similar capacitors may also influence the result, being more or less rone to stray values. With lower values, the stray effect of the "inner-outer" foil debate may also be influenced.

Based on rather theoretical thinking, I also find the debate on coupling wire rather problematic, but again, various types of insulation and thickness may again induce rather different values of stray. Shielded and coaxila cable is another discussion with another set of values.....

Any thought or ideas....????
< Flame suit on >

[LeftyStrat]

Interesting thoughts.

Another thought is that we've all experienced microphonic caps. Since amps are usually played loud, it would seem that the coating would come into play, affecting the resonance.

This would certainly come into play in any measurements not done under them same conditions.

So we'd need to do a frequency sweep of the cap under measurement, with the sweep also running through a dimed 100 watt Marshall stack pointed at the cap.

[vibratoking]

The appropriation of data by Sozo should give one all the information needs to form an opinion of the company's technical expertise and ethics. By using invalid data, Sozo is providing their own opinion about themselves regarding the technical aspects and quality of their product. If they had 'real' data to show, then they would show it. There are at least several reasons not to show actual performance data for your own product. You don't have any. The data you collected does not make your product appear to be significantly better than the competition. Or...? By using invalid data obtained from an uncontrolled source using a capacitor manufactured by a different company, Sozo has been exposed in an extreme falsehood...Yes, that's the kind of company that I want to buy my products from.

I was reading this on Sozo's site:
"One other consideration is self inductance (The property of self inductance is a particular form of electromagnetic induction. Self inductance is defined as the induction of a voltage in a current-carrying material when the current in the wire itself is changing)...."

I then googled self induction and here is the first link returned:
http://www.ndted.org/EducationResources ... ctance.htm

Look familiar? I know when I am being bamboozled. It's too bad Sozo has NO useful technical information regarding their high-end product. Their caps could be the best ever made and perhaps they just got lucky and stumbled on the magic formula without any technical knowledge beyond what is required to roll a joint. Is that skeptical enough for ya?

[dorrisant]

Shady... very shady!

I love the tone but I haven't bought any Sozos in over a year... problems with a lack of communication and actual availability drove me to try out Jupiters... They are a little more pricey but I can get that same mustard cap tone without the transaction hassles.

I must say that dealing with Sozo has left a bad taste with quite a few. That being said, does anyone have a better source for that type of tone cap? I don't care what color...

Tony

[katopan]

Thanks for dispelling where those Sozo pics came from. I was always wondering. Very dodge indeed.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

After I posted the link to SoZo's pictures, I sent them an email, asking about their recommendations for voltage / frequency for a burn-in fixture. I also asked if a fixed frequency, or perhaps white or pink noise would be best for break-in. So far, no response from them. I am starting to envision a room full of left-over hippies, in a cloud of gonga smoke, rolling caps by hand with nothing more than a cheap capacitance meter for test.....

[roberto]

...and a kaleidoscope.

[vibratoking]

After I posted the link to SoZo's pictures, I sent them an email, asking about their recommendations for voltage / frequency for a burn-in fixture. I also asked if a fixed frequency, or perhaps white or pink noise would be best for break-in. So far, no response from them. I am starting to envision a room full of left-over hippies, in a cloud of gonga smoke, rolling caps by hand with nothing more than a cheap capacitance meter for test.....

My best guess is that they google for an answer to your question and they couldn't find one...now they are stumped and the only thing left is to ignore you.

[roberto]

With the last two pages of this thread, after my link to the diyforum, I think we have some new capacitor-maker friends.

[toner]

Shady... very shady!

I love the tone but I haven't bought any Sozos in over a year... problems with a lack of communication and actual availability drove me to try out Jupiters... They are a little more pricey but I can get that same mustard cap tone without the transaction hassles.

I must say that dealing with Sozo has left a bad taste with quite a few. That being said, does anyone have a better source for that type of tone cap? I don't care what color...

Tony

there isn't really a high end similar product... but, m150's, or mojo dijon come to mind... different flavors in the same ballpark but not exactly the same. how did the red and yellow jupiters compare soundwise?

[katopan]

I still reckon there's an opportunity here if someone knew the right recipe, had a trustworthy manufacturer and was willing to take the leap.