Help with Liverpool -no sound

Express, Liverpool, Rocket, Dirty Little Monster, etc.

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WinstonN
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Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by WinstonN »

First time poster - been lurking here for a while.

I recently bought a Liverpool from Ceriatone (built up) and decided to order and install the transformers myself…pretty big leap for me (got to start somewhere). I bought the transformers from Arlyn at Heyboer, using the ToneSlut specs. Transformers arrived, and after careful review of the layout, and using an express build guide that I found (here, I think) I had the confidence to install the transformers, which I did.

Unfortunately, the amp makes no sound.

A cap job or two, and standard maintenance notwithstanding, I’m no amp builder, and beyond the great care I take to avoid getting whacked by B+ voltage, my expertise in the working of amps drops precipitously. That said, I’ve learned a lot in the last few days.

First, I wired 300v PT secondary (ala Express) instead of the 260. I’m not sure if this destroyed my tubes or damaged anything else. Tubes (especially 3rd EL84) got very red. I tested the tubes in 2 other amps and they seem to work. I had to splice the 260 wires, since I had cut and heat shrunk them, and I worried that that would be a problem, but they seem fine and are supplying 260. The 5v and 300v PT secondary leads are now clipped and insulated w/ heat shrink.

I've gone over and over this (and learning a LOT). Nik at Ceriatone has been a great help, too, but I need to appeal to the experts now. Anybody have any suggestions?

My house mains supply 121.6. The PT secondaries measure 262.1 each. Downstream of the diodes, voltages are all way high. Here is a chart with voltages – all measured with all tubes in:


Image[/URL][/img]

Chassis:

Image[/URL][/img]

Image[/URL][/img]
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Littlewyan
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by Littlewyan »

Check that your cathode resistors are connected to ground ok. Are they grounded on the chassis?
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Richie
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by Richie »

at the power end of the board, check the junction at the turret where both 220k connect. Check it to the ceriatone layout. Had to see the pics don't blow up enough to tell any details.
kwijabo
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by kwijabo »

what littlewyan said. i once had a similar issue where the power tube cathodes were way too high, just like the 30V you're seeing. turned out that the my connection to ground from the power tube cathode resistor wasn't tight. re-soldered it and everything fell into place.
WinstonN
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by WinstonN »

Thanks guys.

Richie - Do you mean the 220K resistor that connects the 47/450 cap with ground? That's in the right place. Sorry for poor resolution on pic. I'll put up a better one.

Littlewyan and Kwijabo - The cathode resistors are *not* connected where the Ceriatone layout illustrates it should be. I've looked at 2 other chassis shots where it is connected differently. Here's the layout diagram - see the blue arrows. I am trying to see where it is actually connected without removing the board...

Image[/URL][/img]
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martin manning
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by martin manning »

Check resistance from the two points shown to EL84 pin 3 and ground. Oh, and measure ohms across the resistor too. It could be cracked.
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WinstonN
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by WinstonN »

Martin:

with amp off and caps drained (does this make a difference?)...

Resistance measured for:

EL84-pin3 to "left side" of 62/10 resistor: no reading (open?)

"right side" of 62/10 resistor to ground: 0.11

across 62/10 resistor: 61.1
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martin manning
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by martin manning »

OK, so you need to find and fix, or make that connection from the left side of the resistor to all EL84 pin 3's.
WinstonN
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by WinstonN »

I found the problem, and I think Martin was onto it.

The wire from pin(s) 3 on EL84 to the 62/10 resistor is disconnected. It runs under the board and I couldn't see it. Reconnecting now...
WinstonN
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by WinstonN »

Martin - I was posting while you were. I'm on it.
WinstonN
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by WinstonN »

Reconnected pins 3 of EL84 to 62/10 resistor.

Progress, however, now...

When standby is switched on there is a loud squeal with volume at 0. With volume up a bit there is squeal + "feedback" howl (for lack of better term).
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Richie
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by Richie »

Sounds like the Output plate wires need reversed.
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martin manning
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by martin manning »

Likely you need to swap the OT primary leads.
WinstonN
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by WinstonN »

I do realize that what I described in the diagram as the cathode resistors are in fact the screen supply (pin 9). Those are fine.

The cathodes (pin 3) are now wired to to 62/10 resistor...with a noise that immediately gets my dogs howling.
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martin manning
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Re: Help with Liverpool -no sound

Post by martin manning »

Exchange the wires shown here as Blue and Brown.
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