anyone know what's up with 18 watt?

[KennedyBlvd]

Just popped in from 18 watt dot com, they're down. Anyone know what's up?

[loverocker]

If you've bookmarked the forum page, you won't have seen the (not quite complete) explanation on the home page: www.18watt.com

[Elcabong]

There is a thread going on on the AX84 forum about this. It revolves around rumors and speculation.

My opinion is that the site admins get PO with avatars and signatures transforming into ads and some posts looking like attacks to competitors.

[NitroLiq]

Take your choice...this being discussed in-depth at the trinityamp forums, TGP....the thread was killed at AX84. Basically, one forum member who's also a vendor slammed another vendor's product when explaining some part faults and the other said vendor threatened to sue 18watt for slander/libel (probably to get them to kill the thread)...this is the current story, anyway. So, I think the admin crew are trying to figure out how to get rid of all commercial advertising from banners, avatars, etc as part of cleaning things up. The two vendors should be taking this outside the forum as they aren't repsonsible for things said in a public forum.

Oh, btw, Hi, everyone...this is my first post here....I recognize alot of familiar people.

[UR12]

Hey Nitro and everyone else new from 18watt. I witnessed both threads and even replied to one of them. The two parties involved should have taken it outside as others have suggested. I hope they both get banned. If I remember one other person left because of a commercial entities hocking there wares. I for one will be glad to see all of the comercialism gone from the site. Of course this probably means that Gabi will be footing the bill from his pockets and all of the members left should help out with that via donations.

I find it incredible that one of the individuals would come to the 18watt site and download all of the info he could get, start making money by offering kits from the plans created by everyone else's hard work and input, Offer no assistance/credit or give back to the site as a contributor and then turn around and threaten litigation on the same parties he took the information from. Unbelievable!! I for one won't be buying any of his products and would admonish everyone else to do the same.

To make matters worse this same individual has now gotten his hands on all of the info he needs (For Free again!) to create an Express kit that he will be offering. So be careful what you say regarding his choices for kit parts for his Express Kit or Omar may be needing a lawyer next.

[NitroLiq]

Hey Dana. Yeah, the irony is that the member who made a big stink about vendors hawking their wares left because because of the constant peddling of goods from the offending member in this new drama....it's like some kind of amp soap opera. It's too bad as I've met this guy and he's a good guy in person....he just likes to push buttons and I have to say, I feel he was really trying to make some valid points in the troublesome thread. The problem is that he's slammed the other vendor's products many times in the past...perhaps the other vendor deserved it for selling half-baked kits/parts but as a competitor, it's not exactly a tactful way of doing things....and it hurts both sides. Unfortunately, the real victim in this case is 18watt.com....it's a shame really.

I also know what you mean about both the 18watt and wreck kits. It's kind of like that line in Jurrassic Park about not finding the knowledge for yourself...."you stood on the shoulders of geniuses and before you knew what you had, you processed it, packaged it, and slapped a sticker on a lunchbox and want to sell it." I initially thought..."What would happen if someone mentioned the kits to Ken Fischer?" He's stated that he doesn't mind building clones for themselves but not for commercial reasons. But then, perhaps legally, it has no ground as the vendor wouldn't be marketing a whole amp in a wood box with the wreck logo on it and marketing it as such. Same for the 18s and every other kit supplier.

[russoloco]

I find the situation to be somewhat disheartening. I buy stuff from said vendor on a regular basis but I also learned the hard way not to buy any of said vendors switches. I had 5 of 6 fail and my brother had to shell out $40 to get 2 replaced (I would have replaced them but he lives 6 hours away). Now, when anyone mentioned that some of his products were failing nothing was done and the thread disappeared. Since I don't know all the details, though I have a pretty good idea reading the threads at ax84 (this thread no longer exists), the gear page and trinity, it seems said vendor may not recieve my business anymore. Sucks too because I was about to make an order.

[v00d00blues79]

I used to hang out their quite frequently, but as has been stated before, the commercialism of the site has gone through the roof. I stopped hanging out as much because all it revolved around was kits and whose was better and such. I hope that things get sorted out so that resource becomes available again, because it was a very good one. That site actually got me into the whole amp building thing as a hobby.

Thanks,

Andy

[tiddles]

Hmm, well I don’t think I was actually involved in that thread, at least I hope not (don’t recall any fuss about switches) .

I guess every forum needs sponsors, and I think it will be a shame if some of the small builders there can’t advertise or discuss their products, but I suppose trouble is inevitable as soon as you have members with competing commercial interests.

Some of us were just saying what a great forum 18watt.com is … I sure hope they get things back on track asap .

Ian.

[Buschman]

I'm on the 18 all the time. How did I miss the drama? Must have been playing golf!
Can we not say their names?

[MarkB]

I posted in the thread in question. I don't want the foolishness to spread to this forum, but I'll say something this once and then drop the subject.
I understand why action had to be taken - there was an actionable statement in that thread, and it was a repeat of a post just about a week earlier. The problem was not the response, it was the original statement. If your entire life's work was on the line, you can bet your ass you'd do the same thing. The guy who caused the problem - who never gets named somehow - started this when he first started selling kits. What he said this time went beyond snarky and went to slander.
Now the moderator has decided to crack down on kit and part dealers on the forum. He didn't do that because ted told him to, he did because the dealer guys are treating the forum like their personal free advertising service. The forum is nowhere near as good as it once was because of it, and Gabi knows it. It was the inability of a forum regular to behave like an adult that caused the problem, and Gabi's desire to moderate as lightly as possible that let it go too far. And all of those regulars who didn't protest this moron can blame themselves as well.

That's it for me - I'm off the subject permanantly. Just one man's opinion.

Have a nice day.

[HeeBGB]

I posted in the thread in question. I don't want the foolishness to spread to this forum, but I'll say something this once and then drop the subject.
I understand why action had to be taken - there was an actionable statement in that thread, and it was a repeat of a post just about a week earlier. The problem was not the response, it was the original statement. If your entire life's work was on the line, you can bet your ass you'd do the same thing. The guy who caused the problem - who never gets named somehow - started this when he first started selling kits. What he said this time went beyond snarky and went to slander.
Now the moderator has decided to crack down on kit and part dealers on the forum. He didn't do that because ted told him to, he did because the dealer guys are treating the forum like their personal free advertising service. The forum is nowhere near as good as it once was because of it, and Gabi knows it. It was the inability of a forum regular to behave like an adult that caused the problem, and Gabi's desire to moderate as lightly as possible that let it go too far. And all of those regulars who didn't protest this moron can blame themselves as well.

That's it for me - I'm off the subject permanantly. Just one man's opinion.

Have a nice day.

You're missing the point. It is not YOUR forum to say what banner ads get posted OR how much moderating is done. If Gabi wants to keep moderation to a minimum that's his choice. If you don't like it go somewhere else! This is about Gabi being FORCED to do what a GUEST couldn't do through normal channels. Yes the offender and the offendee are both guests at 18 watt.

As for protesting the offender....maybe you're just too uptight. If I have a problem with someone I take it to them not my lawyer!

The fact is that the threat of a lawsuit is going to hurt his business more than any negative comments made by his competition. By doing this he had drawn a lot of negative attention to himself AND pissed off a lot of perspective customers.

At 18 watt we are guests. In order to get another guest to stop saying negative things about him he attacked our host. I (and many other people) find that offensive. If you don't then maybe 18 watt is not the place for you. Try one of the BBQ boy's approved sites!

[Allynmey]

Hi all, I for one didn't mind the banner ads and product endorsements from other members. I didn't know sh*t about where to buy anything when I got started. I think endorsement and adds really hooked me up with respects to finding vendors that I didn't know existed. That said, The person with the quirky personality is alright in person and maybe Gabi should have told him to shut up a year ago but, Gabi seems like a gentleman and probably would rather stay out of way of free speech. I personally think Gabi should tell both parties that they caused enough trouble will be banned if the post one more derrogatory statement. I also think Gabi should tell the lawyer crazy vendor to pound sand (legal term). He has no chance on winning a lawsuit with what was said and seems only to be interested in cutting out the competition through intimidation. He will lose many customers over this. I was just about to order something (really) and checked the 18 watt site to see if someone has an opinion or has used this product before and the site was down. I looked around and found a few opinions on what happened and who is the cause and I cancelled my Checkout cart. I won't buy from him anymore I guess the only way to let people know that that is not a way to handle a dipute is in the pocketbook. Unfortunately we will all lose because of this.

Allynmey

[Jeph]

It's too bad that Gabi has to put up with this crap... he's one of the nicest guys I've ever had the pleasure to meet on-line. It's also too bad when two grown men take things way too far, and end up having many others pay for it. I didn't mind either that some of the vendors made it clear just what they were selling, at any chance they could get. I just ignored it, no big deal. Hell, during my brief adventure into selling amp thingies, I'd say at least half of my sales came directly from posts on that board, so I can see why some vendors take advantage of free advertising. In any case, I hope that both parties learn something from this. And I hope the "plaintiff" comes to realize that his wallet may become thinner pulling crap like this.

[kd]

Hello all,

I've been a lurker here for a good while but never posted. I usually hang out at 18watt.com. but somehow missed the thread that is causing the problem. If this is the vendor I think it is then UR12 hit it dead on the money, the guy is like a vaccum cleaner, he has sucked up other folks work and marketed it. To my knowledge he has never put anything back in to the group. I'll NEVER spend another penny on any of his products. What really makes me angry, if it's true, is the guy threatening sue 18watt.com. He deserves to feel the full financial backfire from that move.

My other pet peave, "sue for anything" lawyer: remedy- rope, heavy weight and large body of water.


Ken