First post: what should I build?

[ER]

Hi everybody,

I'm thinking of building a trainwreck style amp and I'm wondering which direction to go.

Guitars are a '77 hardtail strat with stock neck and middle and EMG S at bridge, '54 Danelectro stock, 50's White student model lap steel w/ EMG SA.

So far I'm leaning heavily toward a Rocket build but...

I have an old HiWatt lead 100 that I blew up and was thinking of building a 100 watt express from it's remains.

Current amp is a vibroverb 40 watt so I have the fender end of things covered,

Previously owned amps were Mesa quad with strategy 400 stereo rack set-up to two 4x10 cabs loaded with EV's, Hiwatt lead 100, Hiwatt Custom 50, Marshall 50 watt, Dean Markley combos 1-12 and 2-12.

The boogie was loud enough but too typical boogie and I like the Hiwatts but a little one dimensional and...believe it or not, not loud enough! Would a 100 watt express be as tasty as what I would get from a plain old rocket? I'm mostly just recording now and the 40 watt fender is plenty loud for what I'm doing now, but while it nails blues and clean stuff it has trouble with thick chimey Brian May type stuff. Also something that can play with a heavy drumer is missing from my arsenal at present.

Thanks
-ER

[dave g]

Have you ever built an amp before? If not, an express isn't the best choice for a first build.

A rocket would be a lot easier, but it's still a big undertaking for a first timer.

A 5E3 deluxe or something from AX84 is a much better choice, and once you get the basics down building a more advanced amp like an express will be a lot easier.

[ER]

Hi-

Yes I'm comfortable slingin' solder, I build tube hi-fi gear for a hobby single ended triodes, phono sections, etc (scratch built no kits). Not at all intimidated working with schematics, high voltages, giant capacitors etc.

I also forgot to mention I have a hammond L100 that would be happy to donate parts for an 18 watter (speakers too). I'd rather set it up with a leslie or into a seperate amp anyhow (ala jon lord).

Anything I wouldn't enjoy, want to play through, and keep would be a waste of time and money for me (I have little of either).

What I really want is an amp that will record well, gig with a heavy drummer if needed, and give me the kind of tones the fender won't get without starting to glow, smoke, and jump off the floor.

Is there any single list or depository of Kens main tenants? Solid core wire, aluminum chassis, etc. ?

I'm really leaning toward a rocket, but a 100 watt express would be fun if it wasn't complete overkill (ie. you couldn't be in the same room with the thing).

Thanks, ER

[CaseyJones]

Is there any single list or depository of Kens main tenants? Solid core wire, aluminum chassis, etc. ?

Look at any of Ron Worley's posts in Trainwreck Files. He'd done a great job of bundling all relevant information into neat folders.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5691

I also forgot to mention I have a hammond L100 that would be happy to donate parts for an 18 watter (speakers too). I'd rather set it up with a leslie or into a seperate amp anyhow (ala jon lord).

The amp from that thing is an AO-42. Stock, the PT gets hot running two EL84s. If you shed the extra circuitry like the reverb section and the percussion amp it will run 4 x EL84s. It will still run scary hot but it won't glow or jump up and down.

"Set it up with a Leslie" infers that you'll buy a Leslie 'cuz there's no Leslie parts in there. There isn't even a way to hook a Leslie up unless the L100 had a Leslie kit installed at some point.

"Into a seperate amp"... Life's too short. Keep it simple!

Anything I wouldn't enjoy, want to play through, and keep would be a waste of time and money for me (I have little of either).

What I really want is an amp that will record well, gig with a heavy drummer if needed, and give me the kind of tones the fender won't get without starting to glow, smoke, and jump off the floor.

Gather up the parts to build a "stock" Express. If you don't have time buy the chassis, transformers and the circuit board 'cuz in the long run you'll save both time and money. Although it's always a consideration for me I'm promoting my "don't build anything you can't hock if you need to" program more than ever these days. If you're short on both time and money don't waste your time and money, period.

The counterpoint is that if you're serious about your music go straight for the good stuff and don't look back. It's worth it in the long run.

[Buschman]

I can't imagine the kind of gigs you play where a 100 watt Hiwatt is not loud enough. Buy a microphone. The Express is a very musical and touch sensitive amp. I try to use it as often as I can for that reason. It is putty in a soulful musicians hands. However if volume, punch, girth and articulation are what you are looking for the Express will feel a bit mushy to you. I have not heard of a 100 watt Express but it would be worth a try. I think lots of tweaking would be involved. You should fix the Hiwatt and leave it stock.

[dave g]

A rocket is pretty much an AC30TB clone - with efficient speakers it could probably keep up with your drummer.

An express, on the other hand, is a different animal. My personal amp clocks in at ~35 watts clean and close to 70 under heavy clipping. Even though through the difference in SPL between the express and rocket is minimal, the express feels and sounds a LOT bigger.

Personally, I like the express a lot better. If you want the whole EL84 thing, though, I would suggest a liverpool over a rocket. The rocket has a little more chime than the liverpool, but overall the liverpool is a LOT more versatile and I really prefer the tightness of the amp. My poor rocket spends most of its days sitting in the corner of my basement

Just my opinion, YMMV

[sliberty]

Don't gut the HiWatt, especially if it is a Hylite era amp. Either restore it, or sell it to someone who will restore it. They are special,a nd we shouldn't lose any more of them.

As for the TW amps, if you are used to a 100 Watt HiWatt, none of the TW amps is going to replace it. They are all 30-36 watts, and generally not known for powerful punchy clean headroom. The Express can be configured to have a lot more cleans than most people here generally exhibit in their clips. I don't have a Liverpool, but I imagine the same is true there. The Rocket (mine is not done yet) supposedly has more cleans, but also isn't going to be as full and punchy as a HiWatt.

So, don't compare to your old friend - just decide what sound you want. I vote for an Express as the first one to build since it is such an ANIMAL when you want it to be.

Have fun!

[ER]

I'd like to thank everybody for their thoughtfull responses and sharing you knowledge and experience with me.

So, I won't be butchering the hiwatt, I'll pass it on to someone who will keep it a hiwatt. It blew up over 10 years ago when some dope pluged his cheap shorting out bass into it. I'll also leave the organ alone.

The hiwatt was not my favorite amp, but I prefered it to my marshall (too barky, slammed the speakers and made every note sound the same). The boogie was all pre-saturation, it was almost impossible to get power tube breakup with 200 watts worth of 6l6's. The Fender is actually my favorite so far tone-wise for most of my playing, but I need something more smokin' for some material.

So this is what I gather so far;

The Express is more like a hot plexi that can get going at real world SPL's.
The Liverpool is like a nice example of a hot boosted AC30 that has it's power tubes really cooking.
The Rocket is nice all around but not as flexible as the as the liverpool, more of a one trick pony but with such a tone that one trick is all you need?

Is that about right?

It seems that everyone uses humbucker with these things, which will give the best tone with single coils?

If anyone is familiar with david lindley's tone from his steel string singer, that's about what I'm looking for, but I want something simpler than a dumble, and something more touch sensitive that doesn't turn wicked until you lean on it, or loose note definition.

I guess I need to listen to some more clips, but thanks everyone for the great advice!

-Erik

[pureoldsound]

I'd like to thank everybody for their thoughtfull responses and sharing you knowledge and experience with me.



So this is what I gather so far;

The Express is more like a hot plexi that can get going at real world SPL's.
The Liverpool is like a nice example of a hot boosted AC30 that has it's power tubes really cooking.
The Rocket is nice all around but not as flexible as the as the liverpool, more of a one trick pony but with such a tone that one trick is all you need?

Is that about right?

It seems that everyone uses humbucker with these things, which will give the best tone with single coils?

-Erik

I would not call the express a hot roded plexi more like a JCM 800, all the in your face sound you could ever wish to have, very rich harmonics, and lots of sustain. Not smooth, or as articulate as other amp IMHO...

The Liverpool is not a boosted AC30 it has the same Express pre amp, the power section is different and it runs 4EL84s. Some say it's the balance between the Rocket and Express.

The Rocket is an AC30 top boost with the TW power supply. best with single coils...

The express is one trick pony to build, it may not have much parts in it but when oscillation strickes is a pain in the butt....that an other issues that comes with the beast...Once you tame it it is a great amp....Still it will not be a Hiwatt by a long shot....two different amps