Low End Missing with my Express

[pureoldsound]

IIRC Glen uses G12Ms 102 003 which are 75hz..the same ones that I use...I had plenty of low end.....

[leleduke]

Glen K uses a 40' instument cable to add some low end and tame the highs.

MD

[Robbie]

IIRC Glen uses G12Ms 102 003 which are 75hz..the same ones that I use...I had plenty of low end.....

I checked the celestion website and they offer 2 types of G12Ms, a "Greenback" and a "Heritage Series". They are 5 watts apart in rating and have very similar freq plots. Do you know which version Glenn uses?

[dartanion]

Using 6V6s isn't going to give you the bass that you'd get with EL34s simply because of the reduced output. I find the 6V6s sound more like a fat EL84 in an Express type amp than say the chunky 6v6 plexi tones. The bright voicing of Wrecks when played alone can sound bright, but like was stated already, they're tuned to sit in the mix and cut through for lead playing with a full band.

[pureoldsound]

IIRC Glen uses G12Ms 102 003 which are 75hz..the same ones that I use...I had plenty of low end.....

I checked the celestion website and they offer 2 types of G12Ms, a "Greenback" and a "Heritage Series". They are 5 watts apart in rating and have very similar freq plots. Do you know which version Glenn uses?

IIRC they are Pre-rolas 25w 75hz with the lead cone 102 003....I have them in a 2x12 and they are great...I just picked up a Rola G12-65 (old ones) and I really liked it. Although I found them to have more top end, so in a bright amp might not be good....

[rooster]

Robbie - Hey, can you go into the title of this post and edit it to say: "Glen?" . If you could, I am pretty sure Glen would make a visit. The speaker comments from pureoldsound are spot on I think. Glen has another trick he uses wher he takes a layer or two of felt and lays it across the front ofthe speaker in a 4/12 cab, a piece for each speaker held in place by the speaker gasket. With me?

Hmm. in fact, maybe I should just misquote Glen here? That usually brings him in to correct me. OK, so then let me say this: Glen's big secret is to take paper shopping bags - from Safeway markets only - and use them in the manner I described. Yeah, this might do it.

As to the speakers that pureoldsound refers to, I have a friend who has a 4/12 with them in it. Whatever else you learn in this life, remember that no matter what you THINK, hearing is believing. Those speakers will never be duplicated and they truly sound amazing.

[Tonegeek]

Double check your speaker wiring. An out of phase speaker will kill your low end. I use a 1.5 volt battery shorted across a speaker cable plugged into the cab to check all speakers at once. They should all move in the same direction.

If you have not tried them, G12H30 Celestions (Hellatone 30) have tons of low end, even more than a vintage 30, I believe.

[leleduke]

Celestion heritage G1265 has the most low end...IMO

[geetarpicker]

Sorry been out of town for the holidays!

Yes my slant cab (which is what's on most of my CD and all my TW videos) has '72 era black tab rola G12M 25s with 75hz cones. Even though they have rola stickers they are early enough to be the same as a pre rola cone wise which is where all the tone is.

I do have 3 layers of felt underneath each speaker in my "gigging" cab which has Scumback M75s. Now that the speakers are more broken in I may even take the felt out or back it down to one layer...

I always run two cords going in to mellow the highs just a tad. Usually x2 Mogami gold 18' cables.

I also run old 50-60s era Sylvania 12AX7s. These tubes seem to have a more extended bottom end which is a good match for my amp (original or clones) which is quite mid heavy.

That said, my amp has enough bass that any more than about 2pm on the bass knob can get a little loose if running it quite loud. The EL34s seem to reach their maximum low end potential at that point. I tend to always run the mids, bass, and presence on 1/2 and the volume and treble from about 12 to 1pm. Rarely I may dime the volume for some feedback sustain stuff.

Bass wise I find the Express to be in the ballpark of say a 1987 or 1959 circuit 4 input Marshall (with the bass and volume knob dimed) though that era of Marshall tend to be slightly mid scooped. Still, I find the Express to basically be EQed for a big 4x12 and will be thin in the bass with a 1x12 or even a 2x12. Even though folks claim they get better bass with H series Celestions in my experience I find that the H series have so much more highs in relation to lows that the net result Hs can even seem thinner than Ms in the same box. Even though the Ms are known to compress and loose tightness when cranked, I tend to think that with a 4x12 of them the Express really doesn't have enough power to push the 25s mushc into the mush department. What I'm saying is a 4x12 of 25 watters stays quite full and tight enough with a 35 watt Express. To me the mush factor of the 25s isn't an issue unless you are pushing them much harder.

My gut feeling is if you aren't getting enough lows with an Express maybe something else is wrong or incorrect in the build.

[leleduke]

I tried a set of these at the Dllas show last year and they had low end to spare.
http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/ ... sku=660030

[dukeamps]

HI I had the same problem until i changed my speakers from celestion g12t75s to scumback m75/ 65watt speakers. I had used the g12t75s for years and was never really happy with them. Always sounded too harsh. I think the celestions that are made today go only with modern amps, and in my opinion, the amps that are made today can sometimes sound a little dead and the g12t75s put the highs back into them,and a trainwreck express amp is from the start of very mid rangy. So i think any speakers from the modern celestion production could cause problems. I myself have only realized that now since i'm using the scumbacks. On my homepage i have put some audio clips from different amps i have built. Hope this is of some help. www.dukeamps.de

[JamesHealey]

6V6 could be the problem, EL34 sound much better in wrecks imho.

[M Fowler]

Once your done fiddling around with speaker changes and tried 20 foot long cable for capitance change, you may need to consider your TW is in need of some different tone caps or resistor changes.

There are so many variables to consider some builds can be too bright but tube choice is critical, choice of trannies, the type of wire you used to build it, and which components did you use such as capacitors.

[Tinkerer]

I know of two easy ways of getting pre Rola Celestion G12Ms. One is to use Scumback speakers at a premium price but very popular for good reason, the other is Weber speakers (who make them for Scumback).
https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/
Once there, select 'British Series' and look through the 12" ceramic range for what you want, drop down the 'Dope' menu and select Pre-Rola (except the 12M and 12V which don't have the option.) At US$115/ speaker for the 1225, I ordered four delivered to Australia for a friend of mine who has me building an Express copy (not clone), and a Marshall style angled quad box for him.

Hope this helps
Tinkerer

[paulster]

I know of two easy ways of getting pre Rola Celestion G12Ms. One is to use Scumback speakers at a premium price but very popular for good reason, the other is Weber speakers (who make them for Scumback).

But note that this won't get you the Scumback M75 with a Weber sticker. They are different speakers.