Oh, 1 more thing missing on the Rocket..(+ KF flyer & cl

[angelodp]

2tone, is it untoward to ask you to share some views of your amp with a few choice gut shots, given that the cat is more or less out o the bag and we have built numerous versions of the " Rocket ". Might it not be of benefit to KF's legacy to work out these homage amps based on the real thing.

respectfully ange

[rooster]

2tone - Woah again. This is a great history you have with Ken then.

I don't know if you know this or not but there is another person who visits here via RJ, another poster. His name is Derek F(?) and he has an original Rocket as well. His was maybe number 2. That means that his has probably got that original hookup like yours had, and, who knows, maybe Ken shared that alteration with him as well. That might be cool for you to hook up and talk with him is that's possible. He is very 'mums the word' on anything going on in that amp circuit-wise, BTW. But he might share those things with you. His sound clips are great - but wouldn't it be interesting to learn that his had this added/original 220K resistor in it?

Eh, maybe check that out for your own information.

One other thing I would like to ask you is whether or not you are a Strat player or a LP player and if that influenced your decision to buy the Rocket. Did you try Ken's other amps before buying the Rocket? That's what I would like to know. I won't go down the 'gut shot' road here, no (ange?), but it would be nice to see a pic of the amp as it sits on your speaker box or wherever. Also it would be nice to know her name?

BTW, when you talk about replacing OTs, and swapping PT primarys, you express yourself as a very amp building savy type guy, 2tone. Cool. I appreciate this and I also appreciate your input regarding the differences you hear in the various OTs you tried. Hm, I have to conclude that you have a Dyna 470 OT as original. Is this the case? Woah, trying the Bassman in there was interesting, too. Me, I am a man with a budget so this sometimes rule my path. I built an AC30 about 8 years back from the schematics and some friend's originals to look at and it has all the AC30 RI iron in it that CEdist sells - although their sources changed I think. I can't tell you who made this iron, only that it is not Chinese. Frankly, I really agonized over the horrible tone it would have as I built it, knowing how un-original, un-Woden, these trannys were. Funny thing is, and I should point out that the OT I used has a nylon spool in it, something far far from spec, when I got done and we did the shootout - 3 originals vs. mine, using the same speakers, after adjusting for volume and tone, none of us could blind test mine over the others. So I am open to different OTs on an AC30 type circuit. (FWIW, I am more concerned about the OT used in an Class AB Marshall type amp than any other circuit. Here I find there is something about the real deal iron. In fact, on this side note, I tried an original 470 in a Plexi and it sounded like shite - go figure, eh?)

Um, sorry to bore you here.......

Any, 2tone, let me say thanks again for sharing your Ken connection and the details of your circuit. You have added a great deal to this amp's history. If you have any interesting stories about Ken, remember we all here would be glad to hear them!!!

[2tone]

Yes, I heard of derek in the band Novella I believe. Heard their album, and on it i think he played a Les Paul thru the Rocket for some songs. He may have had a real early amp too. Ken was always a single coil fan, favorite was a good tele bridge. That's my favorite pickup too, tho i play strats a lot and sometimes P-90. The tele bridge thru a Rocket is my favorute sound by a mile. It soaks up the high end beautifully, and combines detail and warmth. However you can get meaty goodness from buckers, and the brian May thing with humbucking type combinations. Ken really liked the Brian may sound and that was an influence in his building the Liverpool...a sound that is like a boosted AC 30 sound. I think the Liverpool is a way versatile amp, but everyone seems to build Expresses. They are killer amps, but most owners found they were too loud and gainy for a lot of venues, or certainly the bedroom! Ken only had his own Rocket the last several years, and that was the amp he played all the time. As a loyal friend to Ken, like Derek, I don't want to post git shots. I'm sure the layout is well known and all the clones are fairly close. I had bought an Express and Liverpool first before the Rocket. The original Rockets did not have the optional 220k and 25/25. That was only a mod that a few guys may have had. I did the mod, but really strongly prefer the original sound..Didn't really need the mod. My output was not a 470 but was spec'd like one, and had the extra ultra linear tap on it like the 470.That tap was never used..The liverpool tranny will sound mediocre in a Rocket ( Express tranny too). The Rocket tranny won't sound good in a Liverpool either. I have tinkered in lots of amps and built amps, but I'm not an amp designer...Ken was one of the few really good AC 30 techs..he knew them inside out. The Rocket was his tribute to the AC 30 top boost...Also the Rockets take pedals well, better than the Express and Liverpools( they love old fuzzes tho!) The Rocket 's strong midrange may not like tube screamers tho, because the pedal just seems to mess up the amps mids. Where as other pedals won't congest the mids as much, or they "ride on top of the amp's mids..like fuzzes do).

[rooster]

2tone - Great info. Yeah, ditto the Tele bridge thing into the Rocket. I am not personally into the P-90s but a friend who is, one of the AC30 guys, loves his Special into my Rocket into a 1/12 EV12L cab that I have. The cab attempts to do the Carlton/Dumble thing with front porting. Here the EV can just survive the fatness of those pickups and actually make them sound great. My Express clone is not the same, too bassy obviously.

If I have one problem with the Rocket it is that it is not as dynamic as the Express. Here I mean the Express blooms more and can be made to be louder by picking harder - more so than the Rocket. This kind of thing works for me. But lately I have been playing the Rocket more - . Another thing the Express does at a lower volume, and way more easily, is feed back. This surprised me. It has to mean that the Express presents the lower mids more, which makes sense with that 500pf coupling cap in the Rocket. Still, they are both fun amps to play.

Oh. as to volume, and this probably has more to do with the dynamic thing, my one Express has a 25 watt OT in it and it is clearly louder than the Rocket. (Yet another reason why that EV12L sounds pretty good with the Rocket, it kicks it up a bit in clean power and also just plain ol' volume.)

2tone, you RULE! Please vist with some more Ken stories when you can. And here I mean just get on this site and blog away if you feel the urge. Everybody here would dig any and all of it, I'm sure.

[2tone]

You're absolutely right there! The Express and Liverpool have that powerful touch connection that can recruit harmonic layers over a sustained note. Very fun and expressive amps. The Rocket is for me a nice punchy clean with some overdrive, but not the gain of the Express, without pedals in front of it. Then it can become real convincing. My Rocket on high voltage now drives a 4-12 closed back better..it's punchier and tighter. It used to prefer open back cabs with alnico's. Tho my amp now isn't representative of the other Rocket amps' sound, I don't think i'll change back to low volts on it. My favorite rock amp is my old transformer express with 6v6's..Perfect combination of overtones, nice cleans and the right volume. The new tranny Expresses are zippier on top. One thing about ken's 2 gain amps is they are fast and punch out notes, then you can manipulate them while they sustain. The Express and pool have great clean sounds with the guitar volume down at 3 to 4. That's an added benefit of the high gain, it gives a low volume clean that still has punch and not anemic. Ken used to say his Rocket was louder than the Express! Also that the Rocket had the most bottom of any of his models.!! It does have a broad bottom, where the Express's is narrower. The Rocket is more accurate across the frequency spectrum i think, because it has a purity with just enough girth and sustain.

[angelodp]

Rooster & 2tone - thanks, why haven't I tried this before, you are so right on the tele call. I put my 72 custom tele ( Keith R ) into my Rocket and it all really gelled. I have also moved to a GZ34 rectifier and going through a 2x12 cab with a Celestion 80 and a 12 ET 65 speaker, and the range is just gorgeous. Throw in the airbrake and i can take this amp up and down the line. I suspect that my voltages are more in line with rawnster now that the GZ34 is in there.

2tone - I meant no disrespect in asking you to share some pis and I do appreciate your steadfast loyalty to KF

best ange

[rooster]

ange - pis?

2tone - I have been thinking about your comments from Ken regarding the volume of the Rocket. Man, I believe he said it alright but from here, the Rocket has nothing on the 35 wtt Express for volume. As to the bass content, again, I believe he said it but I don't hear it over here. Now, I have heard a clone that had hardly any bass, but this is not true of mine, any of the three that I have built. Mine have plenty of bass and top end.

So any, for me, were it me saying something about the Rocket vs. the Express, I could easily say that the Rocket has a 'roar' that is all its own, just like the AC30 for that matter. And this 'roar' has a volume quality that is very impressive into the right speaker box. I don't think this is what Ken was saying to you, but do you, having heard the two amps agree with what I am sayiing? Or do you think that Ken was correct for your experience?

Dave Funk echos Ken's sentiments regarding the volume of the AC30 over the Marshall 50 watt in his book - I think. However, to me this gets back to that 'roar' thing. And here I mean the the 'roar' seems to be just as loud or maybe louder - in my mind - but when I do the A/B thing, and gig the respective amps, the Express is clearly louder with more projection into the environment, i.e., outdoors or inside a big room. Do you think this is all about comparing the Express with a vintage 4/12 box vs. an AC30/Rocket with two Celestion Silvers in an openback combo cab? And here, I could almost see this because a box full of real deal greenbacks is really not that loud compared to the newer versions. Was this Ken's example do you think?

I would appreciate your take on this, 2tone. Thanks.

[2tone]

Excuse if this is a repeat..my first reply got lost.. Anyway, I agree with you on the perceived volume..My Rocket the way it came was nowhere as loud as the Express. With the current high voltage tap operation, it's close. But Ken usually ran alnico blue speakers, either in a 2-12 or a 4-12 ( he had a 4-12 with all blue alnicos!). The way the efficiency of the speaker affects the mids etc, you could be fooled about actual vs perceived volume because of the effect of midrange on the ear.(very efficient and mids don't take much power to amplify compared to low end.) I really have to say the cab can make all the difference. that's why the old 4-12's with 25 watters won't be as loud as modern cabs with more efficient speakers . Once I sold a guy a THD Plexi amp (50 watts) and it sounded great at my shop thru the 4-12. He got home, used it at band rehearsal and they all complained it was way too loud even at 3 on the volume. Then he got a 4-12 old highwatt cab with 25 watt celestions, and was able to run the amp turned way up ( nearly cranked) with less volume than the more modern 2-12 he tried. That's why an old 4-12 sounds grand with the express. I think it's a great match of give, inefficiency coupled with the Express's punch and quick response. My original Rocket didn't sound as good in a 4-12 closed back under the low voltage ( 305 V). But the current high voltage version loves closed backs, cause it's tighter and more punch in the bottom..

[Zippy]

2Tone,

If you are running the high voltage tap, what are your plate voltages on V1?

I think that would influence the response of the amp too.

[2tone]

With the stock voltage V1 had about 90 volts, and the output tubes had a little over 300V. With high voltage, V1 had 112 V but output tubes had 353V. There wasn't as dramatic an increase on V1 as on the output tubes.

[rooster]

2tone - Thanks very much for coming back with this. Yeah, I heard that Ken did not lack for much in the way of speaker cabs. Man, the things we learn. ........Meaning I have sold some cool shite that I wished I still had. and

Any, I appreciate your view of things and your conclusions. We are definitely on the same page here.

[Zippy]

With the stock voltage V1 had about 90 volts, and the output tubes had a little over 300V. With high voltage, V1 had 112 V but output tubes had 353V. There wasn't as dramatic an increase on V1 as on the output tubes.

Excellent. Many thanks for sharing that.

[angelodp]

Thanks all the great info

ange

[tweedeluxe]

deleted response to misread post

[rooster]

2tone - Hey, this is my Rocket, unfinished but getting there. I would love to see yours if you don't mind, and what is the name of yours, BTW? Did you say in that post that went away? If you can share, cool.

The faceplate, if any of you are wondering is from the company in PA that Rich used for his Rocket 30 that was for sale in the For Sale area of this Forum. Hm.. laser something? Eh, that's terrible but Jeannie was the rep who helped me. Rich was kind enough to share his basic layout and I just changed the name a bit. His was black with silver lettering, BTW, if that helps you remember it.