Submerged guitar amps, any tips on salvage? HELP!

[geetarpicker]

As you know in Nashville there was MAJOR flooding. The biggest storage and rehersals facility for the studio and live touring pros is still under water, and estimates put the gear loss at many millions. We are talking gear owned by folks like Vince Gil, Keith Urban, Brad Paisley, Brent Mason, and many other touring and studio pros. I know this isn't Trainwreck amp related (unless god forbid Brad's Liverpool was at Soundcheck but his '68 tele wasn't there so probably not the TW either) but you guys are friends so I thought I'd post this here also.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD9FH0KD80

http://soundchecknashville.com/wordpress/

That said in a day or two (as soon as they allow access) I'll be helping a friend salvage what we can of his collection of studio gear including amps, guitars, pedals and more. The guitars may be a total loss, the pedals perhaps, but I'm hopeful the amps may be more salvageable but this stuff was most likely submerged for DAYS what a mess. We are talking Fenders, Marshalls, Vox, Bogner, etc. Mostly newer amps. My first step will be to pull the chassis and start to dry them off and try to sterilize (with bleach/water solution?) and remove any and all dirty water. If it's obvious they were submerged (possibly for days) I plan to pull the transformers and put them in a food dehydrator to bake. The Hydrator has worked well in the past on baking analog tapes so it may work well here. Switches will be replaced. If the pots are totally open types I'm hoping they may be savable with cleaner if corrosion hasn't set in yet...



Anyone had any experience with saving water damaged electronics? I'm hoping circuit boards will be OK. The fiber boards in the vintage Fenders may be ruined since they are porous. I would hope most molded caps and resistors will be ok, but I wonder if electrolytic caps will survive such trama as most I'm pretty sure are vented perhaps enough to take on water? Also I wonder if any attempt should be made to clean out any water logged transformers before putting them in the food dehydrator? Using clean water, rubbing alcohol, Deoxit, etc? I'll pull the end bells if at all possible. The food dehydrator is pretty gentle (used it before to bake analog audio tapes) and should be safe. I'm hoping none of the amps have cloth wiring, as those would probably need to be totally redone and if on the transformers may be quite a task to replace.

I'm already assuming the amp cabs will be coming apart, and speaker cabs will be rough at best and will probably be coming apart. They may be dumpster material.

HELP?

(FYI my personal gear was on higher ground and not effected by the flood)

[KellyBass]

This is a terrible situation to say the least. I've actually got a lot more experience with instrument repair than I do amps...whatever I can do to help, here in Tulsa, count me in.

[Clyde]

Wow, that's unfathomable. You may be able to dry out the transformers but in the end I hope that rust won't render them unusable. I'm sure that water won't be pristine either. Sad.

[tubedogsmith]

I restored a half dozen amps for several folks after Katrina, all vintage '60's Fenders. After letting them dry out for about 6 months with the boards lifted I recapped and retubed them and all but one fired right up and are all still going strong. Speakers were all shot and the OT had to be replaced in one. Two needed baffle boards replaced too if I remember right.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

I'd worry about transformers (in the long term) and organic issues. God knows what's left behind from the water...

Really sad. We had a bunch of gear out Sound Check, and we're betting it's a write off at this point.

[DerStever]

For what this is worth. The electronics maybe the best part to survive provided the water wasn't full of dirt or chemicals. If you google dishwasher - keyboard - ham radio - there are many people who clean chassis and ham sets - keyboards - in the dishwasher. The keyboard I'm typing on was done in the sink and dried for a week before use - no problems. I haven't done my ham sets though .....

I have a Princeton Reverb that was severly water damaged but the worst damage was done to the particle board which warps and crumbles when wet - also afterword someone tried to clean it with gasoline - the chassis had to be rewired after that. It works wonderfully these days.

So my guess is if the wood is ok on the box - speakers intact - the chassis should be ok after a good drying. Best practice would be sun drying for a couple of weeks. But be prepared for any particle board parts to be toast. Transformers might be ok if you can dry them with the shells off. The worst thing to worry about would be how dirty the water is and if it coated anything.

Hope this helps.

[Aurora]

What a ridiculous situation All that gear in one place ?

FWIW - I work with sounding rockets, where the payloads are sometimes recovered from the ocean. They are, of course, also built to be waterproof, - but doesn't always work as intended!
I also live in a fishing village, and have been involved in rescuing all sorts of marine electronics - often with good luck....

So - the cleaning recipee for an amp will be something like this :
First - when the amp is removed from the dirty water - store it in abucket with fresh clean water. Do not let it dry before rescue is due!
Remove all tubes and any socketed parts- treat separately.
Wash with luke warm water and a mild detergent to get rid of any dirt. A good water spray with medium pressure does no more harm than already done! Gently blow away the water residues with compessed air.
Repeat if necesseary to get rid of any remaining gunk. Small paintbrush , tooth brush is a useful tool!
Spray liberally with a water repelling contact cleaner, 5-5-6 or similar. Special attention to pots and swithes, etc. Do NOT skimp on this!
Actually - dunking the whole amp chassis would be the best, if several people get together and buy a 10 gallon tank or so!
Now leave to dry in a warm place After a day or more, transformes can be heated gently with a heat gun - normal operating temperature is no problem? Storing at elevated temperature - 60-70 deg C for a cople of weeks does no harm!
When you feel ready for testing , excessive oily cleaner should be removed with rags, q-tips, -whatever, and a mild solvent based cleaner.
Now ready for the test..?? Plug and pray.... All the best of luck
Components changed as necesseary or by will....

EDIT : The dishwasher idea is actually quite good! Continue with the contact cleaner..

[wallybob]

I once bought a Champ II from an insurance salvage place that was from a W. Virginia flooded music store for $20. Speaker and grill cloth were shot of course. Pulled the chassis out and hosed it off with a garden hose. Let it dry for a while and it fired right up. Been working flawlessly ever since with the original tubes (20+ years).

[selloutrr]

It's going to depend on how dirty they are if it's full of mudd your in for a ground up rebuild with possible iron board pots and cap replacement. If they are just wet you might get lucky and as long as you don't add voltage until they are dry they might fire up.

The trick is to make sure nothing shorts and if they do work blows up the amp.


If they are dirty try garden hose you don't have much to loose.

I hope you had flood insurance
I'd expect to see alot of dead amps comng up on eBay in the next couple months.

Let me know if you find a simms watts

[rooster]

We had a small flood in Oregon, Oregon City, and some of the low lying areas were flooded. There was a a fair amount of mud.

A customer brought me a TV front tweed Deluxe that he had owned for thirty years. And here I think Aurora makes a good point about getting the piece washed off quickly - but I really don't think I would have the balls to soak it in a bucket of water. But with a sea water recovery, yeah, that might be the way. This amp was hosed off by the customer. The speaker was ruined, and the tweed was de-laquered in places, but the cab was actually pretty good. I mean it wasn't as bad as you might imagine, the fingerjoints were fine. The circuit board was fine, but I did replace the bottom fish paper layer as a precaution. The trannys were totally fine - I think, Glen, you don't give these pieces enough credit - and the pots were fine after a Deoxit treatment.

OK, so I think the only concern I would have is the length of time the electronics might be completely underwater, and how much mud is involved. It will be a challenge I'm sure, but the eletronics should survive a fresh water flood.

Man, I hope the place wasn't full of old Celestions - those are gone for sure if they get wet. What a shame. And please fill us in on the first hand account of what you do find. Pics are required....

[Aurora]

The main point with soaking it in fresh water, is to stabilize the amp until treatment can start - meaning not letting air in to start oxidation. If it's already been soaked in muddy water - or clean water for that matter, it doesn't get any worse than it already is. It will also pervent any mud from dry setting, which makes it harder to remove later on.
Cleaning should of course start immediately when it's removed from water.

There's quite a fair chance that even transformers will survive - maybe even disconnected and megged for proper insulation resistance before testing...
If one or both end bells can be removed, it will certainly help the drying process. I don't think water will dissolve the lamination lacquer.....

Pot's and switches, or any cavity where dirt/water can creep in, will of course need special attention.

[Tone_Chaser]

Glen, this was a terrible thing to have happened. Hopefully the ideas you got here will help.

It sounds like Brad lost most of his touring guitars and amps, he didn't mention the TW so hopefully it is still OK.

http://www.ourcountryroad.com/brad-pais ... on-cooper/

It's great to see the city pull together like this. I think most cities are like that.

Good luck we are all thinking about you.