Express relative volume to other amps

[cradleofflames]

I'm looking at having someone build an Express for me. I can't seem to decide whether I'd like the Express or a Plexi better. I have a JTM 45 clone which is a little clean even dimed, has too much bass response, and it's just barely loud enough to keep up with a loud drummer.

What is the volume differential from an Express at say 1:00 like everybody seems to run it to a 50 watt plexi or JTM 45 dimed as everyone seems to run them.

Also how does an Express take pedals like chorus(with the guitar rolled down), phase, and an octa-fuzz?

Is the express sensitive to impedance?

[collinsamps]

I can't speak for the express as I have yet to dabble in them, but I can say that your JTM45 clone has some issues. If it never gets dirty and doesn't get loud enough to drown your drummer there is almost definitely a common thread there. Also, no idea what PS capacitance you are running but I'd bet it's not 32/32 16/16(like the original) if you have to much bass response because thats near impossible. Enlighten us.

[cradleofflames]

It gets dirty just not quite dirty enough. Dimed it's about the same volume as my drum set perhaps slightly louder.

[M Fowler]

Your going to need the 80 watt express like Allyn built then to drown out that pesty drummer or take away his sticks and give him some brushes to play with.

The Express gets loud but if your not miking, well then you are going to run out of volume in my opinion which isn't much. There is plenty of 50w power in an Express its just that it gets what you call dirty fast so one has to play with different tube types for less gain.

Now I just finished my Asteroid 60 and that amp could drown out that drummer through a 4x12 cab and gets very good rock tones/gain later with the volume cranked or with the fast/gradual switch engaged.

Just my 2c worth for today, couldn't help it.

Mark

[cradleofflames]

I have periodic access to a 50 watt plexi clone as well and I have no problems keeping up with that. The Plexi is quite a bit louder than the JTM 45 and truth be told it's a bit too loud. I'm looking to do away with dirt pedals all together with the exception of my HBE UFO.

BTW anybody used a whammy pedal with a wreck?

[Structo]

What speaker cab are you running with your amp?
That can make a big difference in perceived volume.

Like a Marshall 412, that amp should be very loud.
Unless your drummer is non dynamic and just pounds the skins all the time.

[gearhead]

The Express gets loud but if your not miking, well then you are going to run out of volume in my opinion which isn't much. There is plenty of 50w power in an Express its just that it gets what you call dirty fast so one has to play with different tube types for less gain.
Mark

Although it doesn't have the whomp of a more mid-rangey amp, such as Plexi or any of the Komet line, it seems to have pretty good cut-through where it runs; the upper mid-trange and treble. I don't play in a band now, so maybe his drummer is a mongo-smasher.

For clean to dirty, using the guitars volume knob is stellar. Set amp at 1 o'clock and adjust from guitar. Can get cleans almost as loud as full-bore dirty.

[billyz]

First off , there is something a miss with your JTM45. I have owned more than a few originals and serviced quite a few more. It might be perceived as slightly less power than a JTM 50 and a little darker. But, not that much. Actually going into distortion sooner with more sag in the power supply.

The main difference is in the tube rectifier and the frequency response . the 50 plexi being brighter and stiffer. There are different Plexi circuits too.

An Express is more than capable of keeping up with either, the power being similar . The Express has more sustain and definition of notes that the Marshalls and goes into overdrive sooner , I rarely get mine above 10-11. The volume setting depends alot on the taper of the pot too remember.

And Most Critical is the Speaker/ speakers, efficiency , numbers, 2x12 vs 4x12, open vs closed back.

Given the same speaker there should not be a huge noticeable difference in volumes among them. I find the JTM 45 the darkest and the Plexi the brightest, the Wreck is right in between them.

Oh , pedals, you might have trouble with the octofuzz into an Express, the time based and phase shifting pedals should work well. Any pedal that increases the gain/drive will cause you some problems with an Express unless you are at very low volumes settings.

[cradleofflames]

The octave pedal I run at unity gain with very little fuzz. I want the octave but I don't want the fuzz really. Hypothetically if I turned down my guitar volume and then engaged the pedal for that I shouldn't have any problems.

[M Fowler]

First thing I will say is my hearing is decreased, I never get to run my 4x12 cab and the stages are so small I am right up on my cab so if I tilt the cab I blast myself out and the audience can't hear me. I have tried to get the guys to go with miking but no luck so I turn the amp up blasting my ankles and with the express I may or may not runout of headroom depends on the song. I would rather run a DLM into an a small cab miked and have some fun but all is cool. I'm still gigging.

Yes the Express should kick your drummers butt. And get that JTM45 fixed as it could be a good stereo setup for you paired with the Express.

Mark

[Roe]

with a hard hitting drummer I prefer bigger amps than an express or a jtm45 (or a very efficient cab). A jtm45/100 is killer

[cradleofflames]

I'm thinking the Plexi is the way to go but check my reasoning.

As far as projects I'm involved in a have three irons in the fire: Ambient rock, jazz fusion, and rock covers. I can't afford separate rigs for each project.

First context: I run a midi switching system to switch my pedals and rack effects post speaker.

Guitar - ZVex Machine - HBE UFO - ZVex Fuzz Factory - Volume Pedal - Keeley Wah - Whammy - Keeley Comp - Boss Ce-2 - Red Witch Moonphase - Carbon Copy - Psionic Audio Triad - Naked OD

Amp Switcher - Earcandy Buzzbomb w/ Eminence Private Jacks - mic'ed with Audix I5 - Mackie mixer (TC M3000 & Fireworx on Inserts)
- Wet to power amp and cabs.
- Mixed stereo direct to PA

1. The Plexi will take my pedals well.
- In a multi-amp rig why should I include pedals I can't use on all the amps I could use?

2. The Plexi has better clarity

3. Quite responsive, not as much as the Trainwreck but it should be enough.

4. Should be a bitter louder if I need it.

5. Plexis have a stable circuit most techs know how and have experience servicing them.
- The inherent instability of a Trainwreck will cut down the number of techs willing and able to work on them. I've heard stories of transporting a Trainwreck roughly effecting the tone and stability of the amp.

[geetarpicker]

My $.02 on the following:

1. The Plexi will take my pedals well.
- In a multi-amp rig why should I include pedals I can't use on all the amps I could use?

True that a Wreck is not very pedal friendly with effects in front, however it does sound killer straight in and especially with ambient type effects "post amplifier" which sounds like you already have set up. Occasionally you will find a pedal that works in front, but you will not ever need any gain or compression devices in front.

2. The Plexi has better clarity

Not exactly true, depends what you are listening for. I find the Express to have better cleans than a Plexi when you back your guitar down. More like the cleans you expect from a plexi 100, but with the smoothness of a 50 albiet on slightly lower scale volume wise.

3. Quite responsive, not as much as the Trainwreck but it should be enough.

The Plexi should be responsive, though the Wreck will be even more so.

4. Should be a bitter louder if I need it.

Maybe by about 2db. A wreck is a good 35 watts, but a very solid loud 35 watts. I never had problems keeping up with a very loud drummer with a 4x12 full of 25s, and a set of 30s would be even louder.

5. Plexis have a stable circuit most techs know how and have experience servicing them.
- The inherent instability of a Trainwreck will cut down the number of techs willing and able to work on them. I've heard stories of transporting a Trainwreck roughly effecting the tone and stability of the amp.

If it is built right you will not have any more problems than any well built Marshall clone. Actually in some ways because of the lower main circuit voltage (B+) a wreck is actually easier on output tubes than a typical Plexi and you may have less issues with blowing power tubes with the Wreck. That said, in 19 years of ownership I've only had my Express totally go down ONCE due to a broken wire on a tube socket and it took 5 minutes to fix. Actually it didn't totally go down as it still was working on one output tube. I've had a couple times when an output tube went short or a preamp tube got microphonic, still the amp only required a soldering iron just one time in 20 years and not one part other than tubes and fuses has ever been changed. Oh...I did have to tighten the input jack once as it started to make noises... Still, not bad for 2 decades.

Glen

[cradleofflames]

I'm running a JMP 2203 from 78 as a totally clean amp right now.

If I go with the Plexi I would run the Plexi around 7 and use my volume knob for less drive and hit it with boosts to drive it harder if I need it. I would also run a Vox or a Hiwatt on the edge and hit that with boosts as well to blur the line between the two amps.

If I were to go with the Trainwreck I'd be more inclined to go with a Blackface Fender though that would probably sound better into EVs rather than Greenback clones like I'm using.

The nice thing about the Trainwreck is that I could drop the boosts resulting in fewer fault points in my system though some of the effects I'm not sure would work well are non-negotiable, namely the whammy and carbon copy (I use it for the Echoplex running away and squeals from adjusting delay time on the fly.

[rooster]

I don't know about the Express not liking pedals up front. With single coil Strats/Teles it works better than what I am reading here.

My pedal board is: Fuller Clyde>Mojovibe>Fox Octron into a Germanium Fuzz>TB TS9>TB LTD> Dgitech Hardwire reverb.

The fuzz is always on when I engage the Octron (the two pedals are in series and on a TB loop), and the Express produces the low and high octaves, no problem. I do not typically run the Octron/fuzz into my ODs, occasionally by mistake maybe. FWIW, every pedal I have is true bypass which the Express prefers I think.

So what am I missing? Billyz is correct about his assessment of the three amps I think. The 45 is too fat for its own good, a typical 50 watter Marshall runs about 390 plate volts and is the loudest of the lot - by virtue of stripping the bass out and focusing on the mids, not plate voltage, and the Express is right in the middle somewhere - and 'organically' loud. And 'organically' loud means something to me but maybe nothing to someone else. To me it means that the Express has a sweeter voice than the others, its freq center is all about great gtr tone I think.

Eh, this is so subjective so I will stop. But one thing that I also think worth mentioning? Of the 3 amps, with a big pedal board and zero technique, the 50 watt Marshall might be more forgiving in a way - more typical rock and roll somehow. On the other hand, the JTM and the Express are going to take some thought and technique to get the best out of either of them, and both for slightly different reasons. Eh, this is so subjective...