Hide Glue Tips/tricks?

[wattsup]

I have a cab I need to Tolex and am thinking about using hide glue. Is there anything special I should know about it or things to be aware of with using it?

[jabguit]

I don't know why anyone would want to use hide glue for covering a cabinet. Hot hide glue has such a small window of open time (it gels at about 100F) that one must work extremely fast and have a heat gun or other heat source handy to keep the substrate warm which mitigates the rapid setting. Contact cement is much more forgiving and the process user-friendly than hide glue.

Trust me - I've been using hot hide glue for more than a quarter century now.


cheers,

[lonote]

While I don't love it, I have done tolex, as needed, for years & years.

I used traditional solvent-based contact cement the most frequently, but recently tried the Wilsonart water-based contact adhesive on the last batch of cabs, with pretty good results.

It doesn't have the instant hi-bond stick that the solvent-based does, but that is actually a good thing most of the time, as you are able to tweak your placement somewhat before it really bonds. Also no fumes, which was a HUGE drawback of solvent-based products.

I have been fabricating stuff out of wood for decades (primarily cabinetry), but actually never needed to use hide glue. But from what I know about it, it does not sound like the right tool for the job you are planning.


With the Wilsonart product, I found you have to use multiple coats (same with solvent-based, but I used even more with the water-based) & make sure to let it really dry before attempting the bonding process. Also make sure you have a laminate or "J" roller to be able really roll out the vinyl for a good bond.

You can get both roller & adhesive at Lowes or Home Depot


https://www.wilsonart.com/wilsonart-h2o ... ive-wa-h2o

https://www.homedepot.com/p/POWERTEC-1- ... /207154134

[jabguit]

I too have tolexed cabinets for decades. Until recently the only contact cements available to consumers were solvent based. Nasty acetone ketone and toluene fumes could be expected, but they gave good results.

On the last 2 projects of mine I used the water based contact cement, and although they have a much longer drying time and require more than one application to get a film thickness, I was initially impressed with the results. With time though all of my joints have opened up after only a couple years. Now it's getting harder to find the solvent based stuff, but that's what I'd go for on anything from here out.

I should mention that hot hide glue may be modified to have considerably longer open time, like the addition of urea or (believe it or not) table salt. I've used the table salt method for years, but reverted to straight hide glue for my guitars. Heating the parts before assembly is critical to get a good glue joint. Years ago wood veneers were available with a heat activated hide glue film on them. One would place the veneer over the substrate and heat with a clothes iron - softening the glue film, and rolling with a J-roller as the film hardened on the substrate. I would think it possible to prime both cabinet substrate and tolex with hot hide glue and position then heat to soften and adhere, but the problem with heat is most tolex is vinyl and not totally temperature tolerant.

One other glue that comes to mind is fish glue. Fish glue has a long open time and is not affected by heat like hide glue or even contact cement. What fish glue is affected by is moisture, so if one were in Louisiana or Singapore or other area with tropical clime fish glue might be a poor choice.

BTW - and this may be where the OP got the idea - Mark Bartel does his cabinets with hot hide glue. Maybe the OP should reach out the Mark for some tips?


cheers,

[lonote]

I was initially impressed with the results. With time though all of my joints have opened up after only a couple years.

Disappointed to hear that things are opening up. Fingers crossed on the ones I just completed.

[wattsup]

I was initially impressed with the results. With time though all of my joints have opened up after only a couple years. Now it's getting harder to find the solvent based stuff, but that's what I'd go for on anything from here out.

I’ve done a couple of cabinets with water and solvent based contact cements and both came up at corners and outside edges over time. Too, I live in a mostly warm to hot, very humid climate and that doesn’t help at all. That’s the reason I’m wanting to try hide glue. I’ve seen plenty of amp cabs that used it that have withstood years. Something that stays and doesn’t come loose over time would be a bonus

[wattsup]

I should mention that hot hide glue may be modified to have considerably longer open time, like the addition of urea or (believe it or not) table salt. I've used the table salt method for years, but reverted to straight hide glue for my guitars. Heating the parts before assembly is critical to get a good glue joint. Years ago wood veneers were available with a heat activated hide glue film on them.

I may have to play around with this and see how it works. Thanks!

[Phil_S]

Instrument and furniture makers like hide glue because it is easily reversed. Violin makers in particular like it as it insures they can remove the top plate or back plate to service or repair the instrument. Unlike a traditional acoustic guitar, a violin doesn't have a sound hole that you can put your hand through.

As others said, it has a short open time. I'm not sure about ways to extend open time, but, I'd still expect it to be too short to tolex a cabinet. Also, already noted, the nasty old contact adhesive is best. If you are doing one cabinet here or there, get 3M Super 77 spray on or similar.

I can't see why anyone would choose hide glue for tolex. It has a relatively low melting point, making it a poor choice for hot climates or moderate climates with hot summer weather. It is protein-based (animal hide and other parts) and generally edible, making it a prime target for critters and bugs.

[Reeltarded]

I may or may not be the only person here that knows this.

Rabbit/roadkill tastes a little sweet. Horse tastes savory. Blonde crystals unknown origin taste in between and are stickier with a more alkaline feel on the tongue. I think that is rendered pets.

You're welcome. Fun test.

[Phil_S]

A cheap Pino Grigio goes well with fish glue. For horsehide, I'm thinking something robust like a Saint Emillion.

[soundmasterg]

Weren't all the vintage Fender.Marshall/Vox cabinets coverings done with hide glue? I learned to use it from Conrad Sundholm, co-founder of Sunn. He had a hot pot that kept it warm and would put it in the cabinet. He had all the tolex pieces pre-cut and ready to go, and would save the corners until last. He was really good at it, but once you knew how to work with it, it wasn't that hard to use. All the vintage Sunn cabinets were made using hide glue.

Greg

[jrdamien]

Of course, tackling the corners last is still the golden rule, and with a bit of practice, they really do come out clean. It’s not as intimidating as it sounds, especially with a hot pot keeping the glue at the right consistency. Honestly, for anyone chasing that authentic vintage vibe, hide glue is the way to go.

[nuke]

I've used Titebond brand, "Liquid Hide Glue" to redo tweed coverings, with pretty good results.

The trick, is to find a bottle of that's less than a year old by date of manufacture. It has a shelf life, and the newer, the better. You'll find the stuff at the big box home-store is often several years old.

For tolex, I'd go with one of the newer tolex cements. As always, it is careful prep and planning before glueing that makes all the difference. The wood has to be clean and all the fluff removed from the fabric side of covering. Use a roller to get a thin and very even application of glue.

Hot hide glue may have been used by some, especially for "luggage linen" but I'd tend to think contact cement was used for vinyl coverings by most.