Dumble does Guns and Roses? yes! ;-)

[massygt6]

Hi guys,
some unusual sounds from the hot rodded HRM...man, I had fun recording these stuff
Guitar is a Les Paul Historic 1958

www.theicon.org/november_rain.mp3
www.theicon.org/mad_wha.mp3
www.theicon.org/Knockin.mp3

[Bob-I]

Sweet tone and playing

[selloutrr]

Fun clips.

FYI the GnR was originally tracked on a Risson LTA120 w/ 4x12 matching Eminance cab w/ RCA 6550 output tubes.

Dumble goes Risson?!

[Colossal]

Hi guys,
some unusual sounds from the hot rodded HRM...

www.theicon.org/mad_wha.mp3

Massy, this stuff is fantastic and it's so nice to hear a very different application showing that these amps do the high gain thing very well. Your playing is excellent. Your amp seems particularly articulate and there is great note-to-note separation. I am really looking for an amp that does the Dream Theater/Mesa Boogie/Modern Progressive Rock sound well and the tones you are getting seem very much there.

In your original post here http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... highlight= you said the amp was rebuilt to stock ODS101 specifications with the Skyliner stack. Did you simply add in the HRM board?

To answer some questions:
- no, until now I've not experimented with local feedback networks on this amp.
- I've got a 33pF ceramic cap bypassing a 390k resistor in the input OD network
- The filtering is increased with two 300uF 450v Philips caps instead of 2x220uF.
- The lower voltages are obtained with a proper dimensioned PT, bias is about 38-40 mA with a B+ of 405-410 volts.
- The tonestack is still standard Skyline
- The snubbers on V2 are 190pF, ceramics

Can you tell us a little more about your voltages and transformers? Did you change your PT for lower B+? Did you use the OD entrance as shown on the ODS101HRM schematic (with 390k/33pF)?

You are getting some killer tone! What speakers are you using?

Thanks,
Dave

p.s. to all I mean no offense when I refer to Mesa Boogie as a tonal reference here as Dumble came first but I do hear a similarity in a gain-cranked Dumble and say the Boogie Mark IV or IIC+ overdrive.

[paulster]

Now that's more like it!

Love it, and you can really hear that you were having some fun playing too, especially on Knockin' on Heaven's Door.

I'd like to know more about the spec and the choice of cab/speakers.

[M Fowler]

Sweet We finally get some good reference music for these Dumble builds. Thanks for posting those, your playing and tone were fantastic.

Mark

[EaNot]

massygt6, killer tone, thank You! Can You reveal a secrets of the scheme?

Colossal, about Boogie - I agree too!

[Tonegeek]

I too would love to know more about how you shaped the tone to get the response you are getting. I am constantly amazed at the versatility of this design. Good tone and playing!

[Colossal]

Now that's more like it!

Sweet We finally get some good reference music for these Dumble builds

killer tone, thank You! Can You reveal a secrets of the scheme?

I too would love to know more about how you shaped the tone to get the response you are getting

Yeah, definitely a refreshing change from the norm! Bring on the gain

Hopefully Massy will check in on this. He is getting some killer tone for sure. In the meantime, I did some digging to try to tease out some of the details about this amp.

From Massy's original post and video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5EKyf4WUR8

- Ceriatone Overtone 100 donor chassis and circuit.
- (converted to?) BRBS transformers
- B+ was lowered to 405 - 410V (290-0-290?) from the usual 440V on an ODS using a Fender PT
- original video demo used a 1x12 cab with an Eminence Legend V12

Quoting from Massy...
- no, until now I've not experimented with local feedback networks on this amp (note: ODS101 has LNFB and the Ceriatone has it too stock so it sort of implies that there is LNFB in Massy's amp)
- I've got a 33pF ceramic cap bypassing a 390k resistor in the input OD network (this implies the typical ODS101HRM input network except with 390k/33pF in place of the stock 470k/47pF)
- The filtering is increased with two 300uF 450v Philips caps instead of 2x220uF.
- First of all, the voltages are significantly lower than the original.
I've got 410v on power tubes and in v1/v2 preamp section the voltages are about 180v. The lower voltages are obtained with a proper dimensioned PT, bias is about 38-40 mA with a B+ of 405-410 volts.
- The tonestack is still standard Skyliner
- The snubbers on V2 are 190pF, ceramics. I've got snubbers on V2, and as you know, an HRM should not have snubbers.
- I've got a 25k gain trimmer installed in the back plate and currently I'm using chinese high gain tubes for V1 and V2, while for V3 I've got a Sovtek LPS.
- The choke is 10H and the filtering of the power section has been increased a little to obtain less fubbiness in the bass frequencies, even if with a proper guitar and settings, the amp still blooms in a beautiful way.
- The amp sounds a darker than the most I've heard, and the clean channel is still acceptable, not as beautiful as a standard configuration, but still pretty.
- Note also that the guitar has some hot pickups. With a 335 or a Tele, the gain is not that high.
- One thing is that of the original Ceriatone amp, the only thing that remains is the amp chassis, while the circuit as been rebuilt to exact ods101 specs as a starting point.

[Structo]

Yes it is refreshing to hear a different take on a Dumble.

Although I enjoy the Robben and Larry tones, it just isn't in me to play like that.

So I just play the tired old licks I always have and try to learn new ones.

But my genre is more rock and roll, the harder kind.
My amp gives it up pretty good with that type of chording and with the two EVM 12L's it really does crank pretty good.
I love it when you can feel the punch in your chest.
And my amp is only 50 watts!

I can't wait to hear the first chord out of my 100 watt that I am now building.

[M Fowler]

Yes I agree this style of aggressive blues/rock is more to my liking and I really like the sound of this amp.

Thanks for all the notes Dave (colossal).

Tom it probably won't be that much louder but the bass, mids and highs will be more apparent.

Mark

[Structo]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing the difference between the two.

More girth and body would be great.

I've blown away a few friends of mine when I turned my 50 up and hit a few chords. They can't believe it is only a 50 w amp.
I tells them, it's the tubes, it's the tubes man!

[Colossal]

Yes it is refreshing to hear a different take on a Dumble.
Although I enjoy the Robben and Larry tones, it just isn't in me to play like that.

But my genre is more rock and roll, the harder kind.

Yes I agree this style of aggressive blues/rock is more to my liking and I really like the sound of this amp.

Exactly! I dig RF and LC as players and they do have some killer tone, but my playing affinity gravitates more toward classic hard and progressive rock. I've always enjoyed power trio groups and the guitar usually fills a more textural role in those situations, filling in the spaces in between. I love what I would consider a more modern/timeless flavor that Massygt6's amp is giving. It's quite Boogie-ish in a way (again, no offense intended to the Dumble purist camp as Randall Smith probably took something from the hot-rodded Fender idea that HAD probably developed first). If you guys like Dream Theater, John Petrucci has always played Boogie amps and I definitely hear that tone in Massy's video. I also hear some shades of Marshall in there as well but seasoned to taste with 6L6s.

My amp gives it up pretty good with that type of chording and with the two EVM 12L's it really does crank pretty good. I love it when you can feel the punch in your chest. And my amp is only 50 watts!

Tom, we'll look forward to hearing that amp of yours.

I have a 2x12 cab here presently with a pair of EVM12Ls in it and demoed a recent 50W Marshally build through it. It sounded killer! The EVs are going to go back in some 1x12s but it sure would be awesome to build an ODS101HRM like Massy's, run it to a load box, and reamp in stereo!

Tom [100W] probably won't be that much louder [than 50W] but the bass, mids and highs will be more apparent.

Mark, this is what interests me. That 50W amp was ungodly loud but I know 100s aren't that much louder but the depth and punch are reputed to be significantly different. I am most curious about the Dumble MV since the amp is all about pre-amp distortion. If I can get that tone but with the MV on 1 or 2, that would be great.

[M Fowler]

I'm not done with my Dumble amps still have boards to collect or make but all are 100w because I want the clarity, headroom and punch that a 100w gives.

My Marshall 2204 build which is 50-60w is loud, heck even my 18w Marshall is nice through a 412. I really noticed the increased treble, mid and bass response messing around with the 80-100w Rocket. So those Dumbles are going to sound good. Too many builds going right now.

[pancac]

great sound as always. it will be interesting that you give us the set up of the trimmer (trebble mid bass), if it's not a secret...
great playing man