Sprague Orange Drops

[GoghVan]

I've noticed a number of posts that refer to the Orange Drop 715's as being too harsh sounding. I have been using them for a while. I still have a bunch of NOS 715's from 1995.

I wonder. How long did those of you who didn't like the 715's burn them in for? I noticed on a recent Fender rebuild that the amp sounded awful when I first plugged in the guitar. The high end actually hurt my ears. It was annoying to say the least. An hour or so later it didn't sound too bad so I thought maybe I was just getting used to the sound.

The next day I used the head in band practice and ran it for another 4 hours. The following day I just let the amp run for 3-4 hours without playing...as a burn in. It seems the longer it burns in the better it sounds.

This is not a new concept...I've seen high end discussion groups where some say that certain power supply caps can take a minimum of 20 hours to burn in and that they won't start sounding good for at least 100 hours....and great until 200 hours.

I'm not saying the 715's are great or bad...just wondering if anyone else noticed an improvement in sound after a burn in? And if so...do the 6PS's still sound that much better after an equal burn in....? If so...Has anyone compared caps like Sonicap, Solen, etc. against any others after a prolonged burn in period?

[Bob-I]

I actually ran an amp for a few months with all 715's and never liked it. I swapped out all the caps with 6PS and it was much better, but... I don't believe the wholesale swap out was necessary. I believe there were just a few that were needed but I really don't know which ones. I've seen folks who specifically use 715's in specific positions.

Also interesting that I used Xicon MPP and MP caps and I think they sound close to 6PS even though the specs compare more to a 715 than a 6PS... go figure.

Another factor may be the outer foil of the cap facing the low impedance side. On the amp where I tried 715's I did not test for outer foil. On another amp I later did the test and reversed several caps. I found a noticeable difference in smoothness and reduction in hum.

[BobW]

Bob, I understand the reduction in hum w/ the foil on the low Z side, but since the signal is ac, am stumped on the reason for a tonal change? I have also noticed a tone change on some caps when reversing them too.

[GoghVan]

I've heard of the cap test before but never got into the details and didn't know anyone who had tried it so I shrugged it off.

Now that I'm being a bit more selective I'll use the "Cap Test". I have a scope so it will be a easy. I also always measure my caps and select pairs as close to each other in value as possible.

What's a good source of the 6ps's?

Thanks for the input guys.

[talbany]

FWIW..In my experience with cap reversals there can be such a difference.. Although the tonal qualities don't really change much where you do notice the change is in the breakup character smooth or slightly grittier.. IME (you can really notice this effect more so w/715's than the PS caps which do seem be smoother to my ears without as much break in time).. The 715's will smooth out with age but do have their own sound..
Keep in mind this varies cap to cap as some 715's the reversal is hardly noticeable and others you can hear the difference..Kimber caps and Theta's are the same way very sensitive to reversing..
FWIW Dumble has used the 715's in the later ODS's I have seen them in the tone stack and PI..
If your a Blues player and like a bit of grit and honk in your tone these have their place as say in a Bluesmaster as some grit is sometimes not such a bad thing..

Hope this helps!!

Tony

[mad_dog]

What's a good source of the 6ps's?

Thanks for the input guys.

The best place I have found is antique electronics
www.tubesandmore.com

[Ian444]

What about the 716P series, is there something wrong with them? They sound good for hifi, but so do X1 and X2 mains filter caps, not joking.

[llemtt]

6PS are different from any other cap around, they are made from polyester film but are not metalized... hence they are bigger.

my .02
teo

[crafty1]

Guys,

Is use the 418P caps from Torres engineering. These are the same caps that Dr Z uses in his amps except he gets them specially made for him at 400v rated not the standard 600v rating. The 400v caps are slimmer in size. Z has stated in an article that these caps are the closest sounding caps to the old Astrons that Fender used in the gold old days.

I did a build using 716P caps. It sounded good but i thought some refining was needed ( as you do ). I replaced those with the 418's about a year later and i did notice a slight difference that appealed to my ear and my fellow band members. The 418's were slightly smoother and not so gritty. A nice juicier sound all round. For signal cap replacements i do on my amps or other peoples, My First preference is nearly always these caps.

Rich

[BobW]

You input always helps! thanks Tony

[TheGimp]

Vishay makes the standard 418P series in 400V. They are not carried by any vendors I've been able to locate and I suspect his is what Z uses, and he has to special order them.

http://www.vishay.com/docs/42017/42017.pdf

[Firestorm]

I wonder how different these are from the 225Ps. Same thing as far as I can tell, except the 225Ps are "squished."

[jaysg]

HAD uses 715P here and there, so he has a pile of them too. I think there are three in SN 183 for example. The rest are mostly 6PS.

[dreric]

It's also important to remember the all of the orange drop series have gone through changes in manufacturing technique and composition over time. How much these changes affect their tone????

When I look at some of the HAD amps with good photo documentation, other than being amazed by the amount of goop in some of them, I am always left to wonder:

1. Is HAD a genius with a vast array of parts to experiment with.

or

2. Do the amps represent what his suppliers had in stock or what he found in surplus?

I'm no expert on these things but it seems to me that it might be a little of both.

Just saying..................

Eric

[mojotom]

HAD mostly uses what he got on his bench then compensate
in others places in the amp.

He favors old caps and got a huge stock of them.